Category:

What If? Floyd Patterson v. Ken Norton

1/1/2020

Put yourself in this situation. You’re a heavyweight boxer waiting for the bell to ring. Your opponent across the ring looks like a smooth-faced 17 year-old kid. He resembles a shy high school student. His trainer Cus D’Amato whispers words of encouragement in his young fighter’s ear.

The bell rings and your 5'11,189-pound opponent comes at you crouching and weaving with his hands up protecting his face as if he's playing a game of peek-a-boo. Once he's almost in range, you throw a jab but suddenly you see a bright light and the floor feels as if it rose and caught up with you. You lay on the ground in a daze. You never saw that left hook coming. It was impossibly fast and landed right on your chin with an explosive effect. Congratulations. You just went a few seconds with Floyd Patterson.

Let's try a different opponent. He has a physique men to this day are jealous of. He stands at 6'3, 220 pounds. The bell rings. You two circle each other a bit. He inches toward you, dragging his right foot.

You throw a few jabs but he blocks them using a weird armadillo defense. You try another jab but before your lands, he's countered you with his own jab right to your face! You're surprised, but you try to jab again and he stuns you with another counter jab square on the nose. You finally say, “The hell with it,” and prepare to throw a mean hook, but he blasts you in the body with a body shot. As you grimace, he hits you in the jaw with a thunderous right hand. As you stagger backward and get caught by the ropes, you feel your jaw is really loose. It's broken. Congratulations. You just went one minute with Ken “The Jawbreaker” Norton.

Both Norton and Patterson were vulnerable to the heavy-handed sluggers, but they were great counter-punchers and often gave their opponents a lot of trouble. Floyd was a crouching swarmer who could also dart in and out, picking his spots. His hand speed is among the fastest of all the heavyweight champions, including Muhammad Ali. He wasn't the hardest puncher, but the speed of his punches put a lot of guys on the canvas. After all, it's the punches you don't see that knock you dead. Your brain has no time to brace for them.

Ken Norton was difficult to fight because of his scientific approach and countering abilities. If Ken saw your chest flex, he'd know a punch was coming and beat you to it. That's how observant he was. Like Jack Johnson, Ken's whole strategy revolved around countering your mistakes.

Floyd Patterson retired in 1972, around the same time that Ken Norton was beginning to make a presence in boxing. In fact, Norton fought Ali just a year after Patterson did.

But what would have happened if these two fought each other? If there was a time machine and we could put the 1956 Floyd Patterson in the ring with the 1973 Ken Norton, who wins and how?

At 21 years old, Floyd Patterson became the youngest lineal heavyweight champion of all time.

Cus D'Amato. When you hear that name, what’s the first thing that immediately springs to your mind? For most people, it’s Mike Tyson, whom Cus mentored and trained into becoming one of the most ferocious heavyweight champions of all time. But Cus did the same to a young Floyd Patterson decades earlier.

What's amazing about Patterson is that his looks and demeanor will fool you. He was lean and youthful looking, but possessed a resonant baritone voice you probably wouldn't expect from him. Also due to his small size and speedy style, you probably wouldn't expect an explosive punch from him. This couldn't be further from the truth. Floyd could really pop, but I'll get to that later.

Floyd was one of the first boxers to use Cus D'Amato's infamous peek-a-boo fighting style. With this style, you hold your gloves in front of your face as a defense as you come forward, bobbing and weaving. But the style runs a lot deeper than that. There are angles, footwork, and a set of combinations involved. For this style, Cus also had a number system. Each punch represented a number. His pupils would memorize each number, and string them together in different sequences and combinations, and the result would be pure dynamite.

It is a general fact that the most important punch in boxing is the jab. It can be defensive or offensive. Some guys use it as a range finder to gauge distance.
Most fights begin with two guys feeling each other out with jabs before taking huge risks.

However, this wasn’t always the case when you’re fighting Floyd Patterson. Sometimes, he would charge right out at the opening bell and spring off the mat with his signature “Gazelle Punch” and smash his foe with a fierce left hook. No warning. No setup. Just a brilliant, poetic and explosive left hook.

But Floyd did utilize the jab well. He sometimes would jab, then turn it into a left hook all in one motion. This was a brilliant knockout set-up utilized by Joe Louis that other heavyweight champions would use later on, including Patterson and Smokin’ Joe Frazier. For Patterson, most jabs were a way to help him get inside or a setup for a power punch.

When it comes to hand speed among the heavyweight champions, there are five names always mentioned - Muhammad Ali, Floyd Patterson, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson and Mike Tyson. You could make a case that any of them had the fastest hand speed in heavyweight boxing history.

I can only go by what my eyes tell me. Muhammad Ali had the quickest jab, with Joe Louis being a few hairs behind. Jack Johnson had the quickest defensive hands, often parrying his opponent’s attacks with cat-like reflexes. Lous and Tyson threw the fastest combinations. But it was Floyd Patterson who threw the fastest hooks.

One of the fastest punches I've ever seen on film was Floyd's one-punch knockout of Henry Cooper. It came from out of absolutely nowhere, and there was no chance that poor Cooper saw it coming.

Floyd obviously couldn't bang like George Foreman or even Joe Frazier. But as Cus D’Amato used to tell both Patterson and Tyson, “Speed kills.” The punches you don't see are the ones that knock you dead. Your brain doesn't have a chance to prepare for it. With Floyd's hands being so fast and his punching accuracy being so precise, he knocked a lot of people out.

We know Cus used to specialize in throwing punches with “Bad Intentions.” Floyd lacked the killer instinct of Mike Tyson, but like Tyson, he aimed to punch right through you.

His most devastating punch, however, was when he sprung off the mat and smashed Ingemar Johanson with a beautiful left hook. Ingemar went down and out. His left foot was quivering as he lay there unconscious. Anyone that doubts Floyd's power should watch that knockout.

Later in his career, Floyd knocked out Charley Green with a brutal left hook to the body. As Charley slumped to the canvas, Floyd tried to help him up. He definitely lived up to his moniker, “The Gentleman Of Boxing.”

Floyd was most famous for his Gazelle Punch. As the name implies, he would spring high into the air with the grace of gazelle and land his dynamite on his opponent’s chin. Years later, Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson, Tommy Morrison and David Tua would sometimes emulate this punch, but no one did it better than Patterson.

Ken "The Jawbreaker" Norton

Ken Norton fought during the greatest era of heavyweight boxing..the 1970s. This was the era of animals such as George Foreman, Earnie Shavers and Ron Lyle. Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali were past their peak years, but still winning most of their fights, and did so in impressive fashion. Larry Holmes emerged as a top contender towards the end of the decade and ruled well into the ‘80s, but I’m getting ahead of myself.

What’s important is that among all of this great talent, Norton sometimes held his own, proving that he belongs among this special group of heavyweight champions.

Ken started out modestly, as a sparring partner for Joe Frazier. Marvis Frazier told me that Norton once dropped Joe in a sparring session, and that their gym wars were competitive. I had assumed that Joe would beat the crap out of Norton based on their styles (and Norton's chin) but based on Marvis’ testimony, Norton did well, which shows me that Norton was even better than I’d given him credit for. Not many guys could hang in there with a young Joe Frazier.

Larry Holmes told me that Joe cracked one of his ribs, and that his sparring wars with Frazier were among the most brutal sparring sessions of his career. Listen to our interview.

While Floyd rushed at you bobbing and weaving in a crouch, Norton patiently jabbed and waited for mistakes. When he saw the openings, that’s when he attacked most aggressively. He was also difficult to hit at times due to his awkward armadillo defense taught to him by Eddie Futch. But a flaw in this defense is that it always leaves you open somewhere.

The most brilliant display of Norton’s career was the way he beat Muhammad Ali during their first fight in 1973. Eddie Futch told Norton, “When Ali jabs, you jab with him.” Everytime Ken saw Ali’s chest flex before he threw a jab, Ken through his jab too, countering Ali and breaking his rhythm. Most of the time, his jabs landed right down the pipe. This scored plenty of points for Norton, and kept Ali from finding his rhythm almost all night.

Norton couldn’t jab like Louis or Holmes, but his jab was a straight, almost precise one. Ali, known as one of the most effective jabbers in boxing, was finally getting a taste of his own medicine.

But the icing on the cake was when Norton broke Ali’s jaw. There’s so many conflicting reports on what round Ali’s jaw was broken in. I won’t even venture a guess, but we do know for a fact that when the fight with Norton was over, Ali had a broken jaw and the second loss of his career

Ken was able to consistently out-jab Muhammad Ali in all three of their epic battles.

Ken was, in some ways, a throwback to the classic Jack Johnson counter-punching style, although Ken took new approaches to it. To be more accurate, I would say that Norton combined the strength of Jack Johnson with the counter-punch and armadillo defense of Archie Moore (who originated the defense).

But unlike many counter-punchers, Ken could brawl well when he had to. In his battle with Larry Holmes on June 9, 1978, Ken and Larry took each other to the brink. It was exhausting to even watch them. In the end, Larry won the encounter by a point, but it’s a bout that could have just as easily went the other way. Because of this, you could argue that a younger version of Ken would have won it.

Chins

Both Patterson and Norton were vulnerable to the heavy-handed sluggers. Floyd was damn near killed by Sonny Liston on two occasions. Norton was easily destroyed by Foreman and Shavers. But throughout their careers, Patterson was down more times than Norton was. I don’t see Norton getting floored seven times in one fight by someone like Ingemar Johanson. That’s one of several reasons I feel that Norton had a better chin than Patterson.

Floyd still had lightning fast hands when he fought Muhammad Ali in 1965, but the former heavyweight champion was outmatched.

The Power Of The Punch

As I mentioned before, Floyd had the speed to surprise his opponents. He also had fierce accuracy. It was rare that he missed his target. A punch that you don't see coming that lands square on the button is more than capable of knocking you unconscious. Floyd's blows had an explosive impact, but he didn't have the natural, raw power that Norton had.

Norton was a more natural slugger than Patterson. But he obviously wasn't on the level of a Liston, Foreman, etc. If I had to rate his power from a 1-10 with 10 being the highest, he'd probably get a 7 and a half. Ken knocked out a lot of people, but the guys with concrete chins like Holmes and Ali always withstood his punch.

Ken Norton smashing Muhammad Ali in the body with one of his crushing left hooks.

Heart

Ken Norton was a tough guy, both mentally and physically. I just can’t say the same about Patterson, though. Under the advice of Cus D’Amato, Patterson shamelessly ducked the menacing Sonny Liston for five years. During both of his championship reigns, Floyd also stayed away from Eddie Machen, Zorra Folley and Cleveland Williams, all of whom were deserving of cracks at the championship.

Instead, Patterson took easy title defenses against guys like Tom McNeely and Hurricane Jackson. Ingemar Johansson was supposed to be another “tomato can” for Patterson to make easy work of, but obviously it didn’t work out this way.

Let me rewind a bit. Cus D'Amato and Floyd Patterson waited for Rocky Marciano to retire before moving Floyd up to heavyweight and challenge for the heavyweight title. Cus wanted to protect his young fighter at all costs. When Marciano hung up the gloves, the only man standing in Floyd's way of the title was the old Mongoose Archie Moore. As predicted, this was an easy fight for Floyd to win. Knockout in round 5.

Floyd Patterson awaiting his death...

Now let's fast forward back to 1962. It wasn’t until President John F. Kennedy expressed his wishes to see a Patterson-Liston fight that Floyd finally gave into peer pressure and offered Liston the title opportunity that he deserved for years.

Floyd was paralyzed with fear during both encounters with Sonny Liston. While Patterson doesn’t have the chin to ever survive Liston, he never gave himself a fair chance either. If you watch closely, Floyd was making Liston miss a lot of punches. His bobbing and weaving made him a hard target for Liston to initially hit. Instead of countering all of those missed punches the way Frazier or Tyson would have, Floyd just dodged the punches and waited to be hit. It didn’t take long.

What I’m saying is that if Floyd had thrown counter blows to the body and the chin, he could have given Sonny to think about, or at least made a better fight out of it. Floyd was so embarrassed that he wore disguises in public after the fight. He once said in an elevator that someone casually said, “Hi, Mr. Patterson” while Floyd was decked out in a disguise. Funny.

Given his reputation for getting knocked out by huge punchers, Ken Norton likely would have gone down against Liston too, but he would have been a tougher cookie for Liston to crumble than Patterson was. Muhammad Ali nick-named Patterson “the rabbit” for good reason.

Ken Norton was also able to out-jab Larry Holmes. Larry told me during our interview that it was the toughest fight of his career.

LEGACY

Floyd Patterson accomplished two feats that still stand today. He was the first heavyweight champion to regain the title after losing it. This is something that Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis failed to do.

Floyd is also the youngest heavyweight champion in history, a record I doubt will ever be broken. I realize that Mike Tyson (20) is the youngest title holder, but Floyd was the youngest lineal heavyweight champion at 21.

Tyson was a few days shy of turning 22 when he knocked out Michael Spinks to win the lineal championship and officially become the undisputed heavyweight champion.

Technically Tyson is the youngest champion, but due to the fact that the lineal championship is the most important title of all, Floyd still has some right to this record.

Ken Norton held the WBC Championship once and soundly defeated Muhammad Ali. He also came within a hair of beating Larry Holmes in one of the closest fights ever. Other than those feats, he didn’t accomplish much.

This is tricky because it depends on how you rank your fighters.

From a head to head perspective, Norton matches up better with the modern heavyweights. At 5'11 and 189 pounds, Floyd Patterson would be a cruiserweight today. A match against someone the size of Lennox Lewis would be a disaster for him.

A 6'3, 220 pound hard-punching counterpuncher like Ken Norton would have picked up more titles if he fought during the 1990s. If he were fighting today, he would most likely fall victim to Deontay Wilder's right hand and get counted out. But he'd still be a top contender. Norton's skill may get him past sloppy fighters like Andy Ruiz (though Ruiz has a puncher's chance). Still, you could argue that he would give Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury good fights before they knock him out.

Patterson accomplished more than Norton, and at a real young age, so I have no choice but to rate him higher than Norton. But again, it depends on your ranking criteria.

Ken Norton played a molested slave in 1975 film, "Mandingo."

Backlash From The Black Community

The black community was temporarily harsh on both of these men. In these blogs I rarely talk about things that happened outside the ring, but since both of these guys had trouble with the African American public at certain times, I feel the need to address it.

Norton was criticized by playing a slave in the 1975 movie, Mandingo. Years earlier, former light heavyweight champion Archie Moore faced similar criticism for playing Jim in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. But during Archie’s time, there were not many roles for African Americans that were not slaves, butlers, or dancing bug-eyed fools. Because of that, I don’t have a huge issue with Archie playing a slave. It was likely the only movie role he could get at that time in U.S. history.

By the 1970s, on the other hand, things had lightened up. For example, Duane Jones had already played the lead character in 1968’s Night Of The Living Dead. Ken Norton didn’t have to play a slave. He had more options. Because of this he was slammed by the black press.

Floyd Patterson was famously (and repeatedly) called an Uncle Tom by Muhammad Ali and other Civil Rights leaders. Here’s the thing. Guys like Joe Louis and Joe Frazier, for example, were not great speakers like an MLK, Muhammad Ali or Malcolm X. It just wasn’t their gift. The same is true of Floyd Patterson. But unlike Patterson, Louis and Frazier did what they could behind the scenes to make change for African Americans.

Joe Louis refused to entertain only white troops during WW2, and desegregated the United States Army as a result. Joe also desegregated the PGA golf program during the 1950s after his final retirement. Similarly, Joe Frazier stayed out of the spotlight with his good deeds also, most notably going to then-President Nixon to persuade him to give Muhammad Ali his boxing license back.

Louis and Frazier were not public civil rights activists, but they discreetly made change. Just because they were quiet about it didn’t make them “Uncle Toms” no matter what Ali said. That was wrong of him, especially publicly slamming Frazier, who went out of his way to give Ali a shot at his championship.

Ken Norton about to get some of that white chocolate....

That brings me to Floyd Patterson, who not only didn’t do anything to bring about change for his people, but openly sucked up to the white man. Floyd publicly said that Muhammad Ali was “not an American.” What the hell, dude? And he also refused to call him “Muhammad Ali,” instead referring to him as Cassius Clay. Some fellow boxers (both white and black) such as Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, initially didn't agree with Ali's new name and other political statements, especially refusing the induction into the Army. But once they got to know him, they understood. Louis confirmed this in his autobiography, and Peter Marciano mentioned this in his interview on the Marciano v. Ali Computer Fight documentary.

But even Marciano and Louis didn't publicly slam Ali the way that Patterson did, and for Patterson to say these things about another black man (especially one fighting for Civil Rights) was a blatant sell-out move in my opinion.

Floyd was commonly referred to as “the good Negro,” especially in his fights against the “thug” Sonny Liston and the “militant black Muslim” Muhammad Ali. In fact, many former heavyweight champions like Rocky Marciano, Jim Braddock, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott and Ingemar Johanson picked Patterson to beat Liston, but they were thinking with their hearts. I honestly think their prediction was a pick against Liston rather than a pick for Floyd. As former heavyweight champions, they had to know Patterson would lose, especially Ingemar, who basically made a habit of dropping Patterson. If he could hurt Patterson, surely Sonny Liston would.

There’s more I could get into here...a lot more. But I prefer to talk about boxing rather than politics. Let's move on to the final segment.

Muhammad Ali: "I smell an Uncle Tooooooom!!!

FIGHT NIGHT

Here we go. The fun part. The most similar fighter to Ken Norton that Floyd Patterson fought was Ingemar Johansson, going 2-1 against him during a great trilogy.

During their first battle, Floyd had issues getting inside because of Ingemar's consistent jab. The jab was not landing so much, but it kept Floyd from getting set to attack. By the third round, Ingemar began to surprise Floyd with a thunderous right hand after a preceding left hook. Patterson went down 7 times from there.

Floyd got his revenge by knocking out Ingemar in their next two fights. He occasionally got hurt and knocked down in these fights, but he fought more aggressively, not allowing Ingemar to control the action with his jab.

Now, I said earlier that Ingemar was similar to Norton. This isn’t too accurate of a statement, but Ingemar was the closest thing to a Norton-esque fighter that he fought.

Norton was better than Ingemar. He was noticeably much bigger at 6’3, 220 pounds. He hit harder than Ingemar. He fought with an awkward defense, and could knock you out with either hand. In short, he was a much better fighter than Ingemar Johansson, who was the best fighter Floyd fought during his best years. (Aside from Sonny Liston and an aging Archie Moore).

Now, the closest fighter to Floyd Patterson that Norton fought was Jimmy Young. (Jimmy wasn't really anything like Patterson, but he was the closest fighter I could compare Patterson to). Norton won a close and controversial split decision. Most observers, including referee Carlos Padilla, felt that Young should have won the fight.

The fight was back and forth. Young fought aggressively at times, and defensively at others. Jimmy was a small man that could be hard to catch. He was also much more durable than Patterson could ever be. Young not only withstood blows from Norton, but from a prime George Foreman as well.

To be fair, by 1977 George was still haunted by the ghost of Muhammad Ali in Zaire. He was afraid of losing stamina and was hesitant to “pull the trigger.” But still, Young got hit throughout the fight and survived Foreman’s blows. Patterson would never pull that off, regardless of Foreman’s mental state.

Jimmy Young beat George Foreman so bad that George saw Jesus after the fight. True story.

Knowing Floyd, he might get intimidated by Norton’s physique alone. Norton wasn’t Sonny Liston, but he looked imposing, as his nickname “Black Hercules” suggested. Floyd had a lot of speed, but I think the beginning of the end would happen the moment Norton lands his first big punch. It could be a hard left to the body, or a brutal jaw-breaking right hand.

Like Ingemar, Norton had the jab to keep Floyd from finding his rhythm. Norton’s jab was a straight punch and more of a clever counter attack than Liston’s long, slow jab, which Floyd dodged well but failed to counter.

I could never imagine Ken being afraid of Floyd, but I could see it being vice versa. Also, I believe Ken had the chin to withstand Floyd’s dynamite blows, but Floyd would probably get hurt bad by Ken’s attacks. With Ken's armadillo defense and counter-jab, it would be hard for Patterson to move in without getting cracked. Norton would see the gazelle punch coming and counter effectively.

Again, Norton waited for your chest to flex, so I don't see Floyd's speed being a factor because Norton would always know when a punch was coming.

It’s just not a good match-up for Patterson. The smaller Patterson would get knocked off his feet multiple times and wish he’d have stayed a light heavyweight. After the fight, he would cry more than my grandma did when Marvin Gaye died. OK, I'm exaggerating. But seriously. My final prediction would be a referee stoppage after Floyd has repeatedly hit the deck, too dazed to continue.

Ken Norton wins by technical knockout in round 3.

0 Comments

What If? David Tua Versus Primo Carnera

12/20/2019

0 Comments

Imagine the year is 1933 and you're a top-ranked heavyweight contender stepping into the ring with the heavyweight champion. As the announcer pumps up the crowd during the introductions, the heavyweight champion glares at you from across the ring. He is a huge man, standing at a tall 6'6 and ½ inches and a massive 250 pounds. His name is Primo Carnera, (88-14, 71 Knockouts) and he just recently killed a man named Ernie Schaaf in a previous fight. You're about to face one of the strongest men alive on the planet, even capable of murder in the ring.

Let's fast forward to the year 2000. You're a boxer and the only man standing between you and a potential crack at the heavyweight championship is a strong, stocky powerhouse of a heavyweight named David Tua. (52-5-2, 43 Knockouts)

Tua may be on the small side standing at 5'10 and wearing a "Kid N' Play" haircut, but it doesn't matter. You've seen what his devastating left hook can do. He basically hits you with the entire island of Samoa. Tua has his Polynesian dancers drumming and dancing as he makes his way to the ring. As he climbs through the ropes, he shoots you the meanest look you've ever seen in your life. He has knocked out his last ten opponents in a devastating fashion and looks to add you to his list. You visibly shudder at the thought.

David Tua is arguably the greatest heavyweight never to win the title. But he was blessed with pure dynamite in his fists and had one of the best chins of all time. His left hook was pure blunt force trauma.

Primo Carnera was also a warrior gifted with almost supernatural physical strength. He is one of the biggest heavyweight champions to ever fight in the ring. What would happen if these two mammoths clashed in the center of the ring? Who controls the action? Who goes down? Who has the better legacy? Let's discuss.

Standing at 6'6 and 250 pounds, the massive Primo Carnera would hold a significant size advantage over "The Throwin' Samoan."

The Ambling Alp

Known as the Ambling Alp (What kind of name is that?!?!) Primo was the biggest heavyweight champion in history until the arrival of the 7-foot tall Nikolai Valuev. Carnera was incredibly strong, even working as a strongman and professional wrestler at one point.

Primo naturally had an intimating presence because of his size, but his scary reputation increased when he fatally knocked out Ernie Schaaf in February 1933. In the 13th round, a jab from the giant sent Schaaf sprawling to the canvas, and he never entirely woke up. He briefly awoke paralyzed in the hospital, but lapsed back into a coma and passed away 4 days later. Here is a clip of the knockout.

Primo knocked out Jack Sharkey to win the heavyweight championship in 1933. In the 6th round, a vicious uppercut literally knocked Sharkey off his feet and took his title. What's ironic is that Sharkey had easily boxed his way to a decision over Primo in their previous encounter, but he was obviously intimated by Primo's “murderous” reputation in their title fight. The man was terrified.

Primo was not heavyweight champion for long. He was absolutely destroyed by Max Baer a year later, hitting the canvas 11 times. The referee mercifully stopped the massacre in the 11th round.

The following year, Primo was again humiliated...this time by a young up and coming Joe Louis. The Brown Bomber unloaded his dynamite and put Carnera on the floor three times. By the 6th round, it was over. This fight was the first major milestone in Louis' career. When he showed that he could knock out the massive Primo Carnera, people knew he had a future. Here is what Louis had to say about fighting Primo, brilliantly walking us through the fight.

Louis said here that “Carnera was nothing.” It's interesting that Louis was able to literally pick up the giant and not vice versa. This was an easy fight for Louis, and he makes it sound as if Primo wasn't as talented as people thought, which I'll get to in a second.

There are many rumors that Primo was controlled by the mob. I don't know the details of this, but if true, Louis' statements ring even more true. Primo was huge, but couldn't fight. His size and mob connections are what led to his success. But that's all a matter of opinion.

The Tuaman

That 19-second demolition you just witnessed is the entire David Tua-John Ruiz fight. Many of Tua's early fights went like this, and he was referred to by many as "The Samoan Mike Tyson." Like his hero Mike Tyson, David Tua often ended fights early in an explosive fashion.

After turning pro in 1992, David gained a reputation for being one of boxing's most feared sluggers. His trainers were Lou Duva, Ronnie Shields and Kevin Barry. Duva was friends with Rocky Marciano and said during one of Tua's post-fight interviews that he gave his pupil a “Rocky Marciano style.” That may have been Duva's intent, but in my opinion David combined Tyson's aggressive approach with Joe Frazier's explosive left hook and stamina. Throw in a granite chin, and the result is David Tua.

David had a reputation for destroying guys within the first round, but he was also dangerous because he could go the distance no problem. There were many fights where David was behind on the scorecards but his bomb of a left hook bailed him out at the last second. Well, I guess you could compare him to Marciano in that regard. Marciano and Tua both had fights where their one-punch power saved the day at the last second.

Tua also had a chin of absolute granite. He was rarely hurt or staggered. Those huge tree trunk legs kept him sturdy.

Tua's first loss came to Ike Ibeabuchi in one of the best fights of all time. The battle was close. I had it 6-4-2 for Ike Ibeabuchi. Tua had issues adjusting to Ike's jab during the first four rounds, and Ike fought like hell to survive the last round, outpointing Tua. If not for his late start, Tua would have won.

Despite losing, this was Tua's best performance. He threw devastating combinations of hooks and uppercuts, he threw dozens of punches to the head and body almost consistently. Both guys wanted the win badly, and wound up having the highest number of punches thrown in a heavyweight fight.

After his undefeated streak was broken by Ibeabuchi, Tua seemingly lost his spirit. His weight began to balloon the next year in a fight with Hasim Rahman. Tua began to get bigger and bigger with each fight, and now fought a bit more lazy, often looking to end things with his thunderous left hook. The combinations, the uppercuts, and the thudding body blows were suddenly gone. It was now all about the left hook. This lack of strategy and motivation gradually ruined David's career.

David Tua narrowly missing a massive left hook on Lennox Lewis in 2000.

A Clash Of Styles

Primo fought as an upright, outside boxer. He used his long 85-inch reach and jab to fight from the distance.

Tua, on the other hand, was the exact opposite. He charged right at you and launched his thudding hooks and uppercuts in close range.

If we go by what Louis said, Primo had a “pretty decent jab” and pushed with his right. What we know is that when sluggers slipped under his guard and landed on Primo's chin, he went down in a heap.

Max Baer and Joe Louis are the hardest punchers Primo fought, and they both shattered him easily once they landed their first significant punch. Louis wisely concentrated on a body attack during the early rounds to "soften" Primo up. Once Primo was visibly getting fatigued and began to drop his guard to protect his ribs, that's when Louis got aggressive and went for the kill.

But Max Baer? He was a wild swinging madman. No finesse, no grace, no setup, just wild crazy random swings. If he could connect on Baer, I'm almost sure anyone could.

The difference between their victories against Primo is that Louis started setting Primo up as early as the first round, so it took less knockdowns to finish him later. Primo was broken down and ready to go by round 6. Baer hurt Primo earlier, but because he didn't "weaken" him the way Louis did, it took him a lot longer for Baer to finish the giant. (11 rounds).

Joe Louis struck Carnera so hard that blood squirted from his mouth and he went crashing to the floor.

Fighting big men wasn't necessarily a problem for Tua, but his kryptonite was a good jab, regardless of his opponent's size. Tua never learned how to sufficiently block or slip them. Hasim Rahman was far from a spectacular heavyweight, but because he had a decent jab, Tua had trouble adjusting to him in two fights.

Tua's defense was so bad that he made Hasim Rahman almost look as good as Joe Louis. Similarly, Chris Bryd had a field day humiliating Tua for 12 rounds. Bryd's awkward, pawing jab and slick mobility kept Tua befuddled and allowed Bryd to stay out of danger. Tua never learned how to sufficiently cut the ring either. If he had, then he would have mowed down Rahman and Bryd and pulverized them. But he had no idea how to close the gap if his opponent kept their jab in his face.

Tua might attack aggressively like a Frazier or Marciano, but he had no idea how to trap and corner guys the way they did.

During their heavyweight championship fight in November 2000, Lennox Lewis basically treated Tua like a sparring partner in one of his easiest title defenses.

But Primo Carnera was even bigger than Lennox Lewis, and we saw what happened when Tua fought Lewis. Does this mean Carnera would automatically beat Tua? Not necessarily.

Tua had knocked out guys as big as Lewis before, but none of them had Lewis' defense and skill. It was difficult getting around Lewis' reach, especially with him constantly shooting that jab.

Lewis also had his right hand prepared to surprise Tua with a straight right or uppercut. Once Tua felt the uppercut during the early rounds, he stopped attacking as much, knowing that this was the punch that awaited him if he got too close.

Tua also had a rib injury that was aggravated early in the fight when Lewis struck him with a body shot. Whether it was the uppercut or the body punch to the rib (or both) Tua mentally submitted and followed Lewis around for the remainder of the fight in a trance, hoping to smash him with an explosive left hook that never connected. He had no plan B.

During the last 2 seconds of the fight, David desperately threw a left hook so wide that he threw himself into the ring post.

Lewis and his trainer Emanuel Steward had Tua all figured out long before the fight. In addition to keeping Tua at bay with his telephone pole jab, Lewis held his right hand near his jaw, protecting it from Tua's only threatening punch – the left hook.

Despite being bigger than Lewis, Primo didn't jab nearly as much, nor was his right hand as vicious. I also don't think he'd employ any set strategy to keep Tua off of him. Because Primo lacked proper defense, it's more than possible that Tua would sneak through and blast his jaw the way Louis and Baer did.

Then again, Tua could be a lazy fighter at times. There were many fights he had against big guys with minimal talent similar to Carnera – David Izon, Oleg Maskaev, and Danell Nicholson immediately spring to mind. These guys were far from great fighters but they were having a fun time dismantling Tua until he suddenly landed that big left hook that put them to sleep.

Primo was so big that it was difficult for his opponents to get under his reach and attack him.

Legacy

Another reason why these two probably don't get the recognition they deserve is because their biggest victories in the ring are somewhat tainted. Primo's biggest win was over the much smaller and absolutely terrified Jack Sharkey.

As for David Tua, he knocked out four former heavyweight champions – Hasim Rahman, Michael Moorer, Oleg Maskaev, and John Ruiz. Ruiz was destroyed in 19 seconds and Moorer was blasted out in 30 seconds. But at the time Tua knocked out these men, none of them were the heavyweight champion.

Tua's biggest loss was to a peak Lennox Lewis, and his second biggest loss was to a young Chris Bryd.

Carnera's biggest losses were to Max Baer and Joe Louis. Primo's losses can be forgiven. Baer was one of the most dangerous punchers of all time. Joe Louis is arguably the greatest heavyweight champion of all time, so there isn't any shame in getting knocked out by those men.

Early on, Chris Byrd looked TERRIFIED of David Tua. But he soon realized he had nothing to worry about.

Lennox Lewis was too good for Tua, but Tua could have given himself a chance if he'd thrown more punches. In Lewis' next fight, Hasim Rahman destroyed him with one punch and took his championships. Tua is a much harder puncher than Rahman. The difference between the two is that Rahman actually threw punches in his title fight with Lewis, and Tua didn't.

Tua lost his fight against Bryd for similar reasons. He spent the whole fight looking to smash the elusive Bryd with his fierce left hook. Bryd has a great chin and could roll well with a punch if he saw it coming. Tua landed plenty of body punches throughout the fight, but by the time Bryd started to slow down because of it, it was round 11 and the fight was nearly over.

Lennox Lewis said it best. “It takes a whole arsenal to beat Lennox Lewis, not just a left hook and a haircut.” A cocky statement, but true.

If I had to rank Carnera and Tua, I'd rank Carnera ahead. For starters, Primo actually won the heavyweight title, something Tua never did. Even sadder for Tua is that there were four heavyweight titles during his era and he never picked up a single one, while many lesser fighters did.

Secondly, Primo's biggest losses were understandable. Tua, on the other hand, fell in love with his power and had no strategy against Lewis and Bryd aside from smashing them with a huge left hook to the chin.

Sugar Ray Robinson hanging out with Primo Carnera and Joe Louis.

Speed

As far as mobility goes, Primo moved a bit better than Jess Willard, but he was no gazelle. Still, Carnera wasn't necessarily slow, but you could see most of his punches coming. You could say maybe he was average at best.

Tua's hand speed wasn't on the Tyson or Ali level, but when he's in range that left hook could certainly catch you by surprise. Ask Darroll Wilson about that. He and Tua were scuffling up close, and Wilson all of a sudden went down. Tua had snuck a left hook to his chin. 1st round knockout.

People used to compare Tua's left hook to Joe Frazier's, but Joe's was clearly better. Joe could launch that punch from any angle, and you often couldn't see it coming.

Joe would “double” his hook, throwing one left hook to the body and then another one to the head. BANG! BANG! It was this combination that sent Muhammad Ali staggering into the ropes during round 11 of the fight of the century in 1971.

Sometimes Frazier threw the left hook after a jab in one motion, and sometimes he threw the left hook after a right hand set-up.

Tua was more predictable, often leaning a bit to his left just before launching the punch. Generally, you could see his hook coming if he were more than a foot and half away. But up close? You'd never see it coming.... and wake up in the locker room.

An older David Tua smashes an opponent with his left hook. Like George Foreman, Tua's power never faded.

The Fight

Here's what you've been waiting for. One guy (Tua) had awesome power, a concrete chin and no problem going the distance. The other (Carnera) was one of the biggest men to ever lace up the gloves and even killed a man in the ring. How does the fight go?

Well, it depends on Tua. The 1994-97 version of David Tua would attempt to smash Carnera immediately. It took Louis and Baer a few knockdowns to keep the giant down for good, but they succeeded. They also connected their blows rather easily.

If Louis said he had issues getting under Primo's guard during the first few rounds, so would Tua, who lacked Louis' defense and was even shorter. Louis broke Primo down with his jab and counters to the body, waiting for the perfect time to strike. That moment finally arrived in round 6.

The '90s version of Tua still had issues adjusting to jabs, but because Primo didn't throw that many and Tua kept attacking, he'd land that big left hook midway through the fight after struggling a few rounds to close the gap. A surprised and outgunned Carnera would be repeatedly put on the canvas.

If it's the overweight David Tua that lost to Lennox Lewis, Carnera may stay in the game a bit longer, but it'd be the same result – Carnera tries to survive, but the referee stops the fight after the big man takes one left hook too many.

David Tua Wins By Sensational Knockout in Round 5.

Agree? Disagree? Duke it out in the comments!

This would be the outcome of the fight. David Tua wins by 5th Round Knockout.

0 Comments

The Past or The Future? Discussing Mike Tyson and Deontay Wilder

12/2/2019

0 Comments

“I am the hardest hitting puncher in boxing history, period.”

-Deontay Wilder. (WBC Heavyweight Champion, November 2019)

Easy there, fella. I really wish there was a George Chuvalo around right now to test Wilder's theory. I like Wilder, but all of this talk about his power is too premature.

Look, Wilder can punch. But he's not on the Foreman level. Did any of you see that punching bag in Zaire when Foreman pounded it? I've never seen any heavyweight punch like that. That's power on a whole 'nother level. Don't compare Wilder's power to Foreman. Don't even compare it to Earnie Shavers.

If I had to compare Wilder's power to anybody, it'd be someone like Razor Ruddick or Max Baer. I'm not even convinced that Wilder punches as hard as someone like Tommy Morrison or David Tua. Wilder is a giant heavyweight who has great accuracy. He has an easier time getting his punch to the target than the shorter men who have to swarm their way inside. Wilder can catch you coming in. This, and a lack of great competition, is how his impressive knockout percentage culminated.

George Foreman recently stated that Joe Louis, Mike Tyson and Joe Frazier hit harder than Wilder. While all three of those men are among the all-time great sluggers, I disagree that Louis and Frazier hit harder than Wilder. I'll get to Tyson in a minute.

Another thing that keeps coming up is this annoying question.

"Would Deontay beat Mike Tyson?"

Here's the thing. Tyson struggled with big men. Yes, he generally beat them. But when a big guy decided to clinch, run or fight as a counter-puncher, Tyson just couldn't get the knockout.

James Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker and Mitch Green used these tactics to frustrate Mike. They were in survival mode and lost the fights, but they showed how to neutralize Mike's power if you're a big man.

At 6'7, Deontay is far bigger than those guys and has an 84-inch reach. He could easily use those long arms to wrap Tyson up in clinches and frustrate him.

But at the same time, Deontay has never fought anyone like Iron Mike. What would happen when Mike inevitably slips inside of Wilder's reach and smashes him on the chin with a fierce left hook?

We'll never know, but Wilder has never dealt with that kind of speed and power before. Because of that, I think Tyson would brutalize him. My prediction would be a Tyson knockout in two rounds. I'm talking 1988 Tyson here.

This isn't bias; it's basically more of a pick against Wilder than a pick for Tyson. We just don't know enough about Wilder to assess him yet, which is why I don't understand why people are jumping on his bandwagon so soon.

All I know about Wilder is that he can punch like hell with his right hand, but hasn't fought anyone on the all-time great level or with an all-time great chin to confirm how legit he really is.

Speaking of Tyson, people are asking if Wilder punches harder than Tyson.

With the right hand, possibly. Overall, no. Tyson could crack with both hands. But his signature punches were his left hook and uppercut. Wilder is possibly a harder right hand puncher than Tyson, but Tyson has more devastating punches in his arsenal than Wilder, who relies on his right hand for his knockouts.

Wilder told TMZ Sports the other day to "let the past go." In a way, I think he is right. For now, let's hold off on comparing him to past heavyweight champions. Right now his future looks bright, but it's still a mystery.

When Muhammad Ali was in his prime years (1964-67) people were not considering him an all-time great yet, often ranking Marciano, Louis, Johnson and Dempsey ahead of him. Likewise, Marciano was not viewed as one of the best during the years he fought. It wasn't until well after his retirement that his ranking skyrocketed. Take a look back at what the Ring Magazine rankings were during those times and read what sports writers were saying.

It can go the other way too, as people thought Riddick Bowe was on his way to being the next "big thing," but we saw how that turned out. The lesson is to sit back and watch these guys fight and see what happens. You never know who will be the real thing and who will be a disappointment.

People have been asking my opinion on these topics, so I decided to share.

0 Comments

What If? Joe Louis Versus Mike Tyson

11/11/2019

0 Comments

One of the great fantasy fights we'll never get to see is The Brown Bomber Joe Louis (66-3, 52 knockouts) versus Iron Mike Tyson. (50-6, 44 knockouts) Both guys were the best finishers in heavyweight history. Both guys loved to end things with a hook or uppercut to the chin. Both guys blended tremendous speed and power with frightening accuracy. But what would happen if the young Joe Louis from 1938 clashed in the ring with the peak Mike Tyson from 1988? One thing is for certain..the ending of the fight wouldn't have anything to do with the judges' scorecards.

Even though their styles were totally different, Tyson and Mike had one major thing in common – they are the only heavyweight champions blessed with lightning hand speed AND brutal knockout power in both hands. Generally, boxers are gifted with either great speed or great power. It's rare that a guy gets both. Since Louis and Tyson combined both, they were dangerous, dangerous heavyweights to fight. Both men also put together strings of dynamite punches called combinations. Making things worse for their opponents is that both guys had great punching accuracy...they often hit the intended target perfectly. Neither man ever looked sloppy or wasted a lot of punches during his prime.

Power is one thing, but the speed of their punches would get you. You literally wouldn't see the knockout punch coming. Even though they went about things differently - Joe preferred to set things up with his jab and patiently wait for the perfect opening, while Mike came right at you and launched thunder, especially when his opponents missed-- these guys almost always put on a great show and left their opponent dazed on the canvas.

Style Points

Both men were good from a technical standpoint. Louis was always in position to punch and always had his right hand ready to parry and his left hand ready for a jab or hook. Louis' technical flaws were his “ball and chain” footwork. Louis was not fast on his feet. Granted, he cut the ring down well and walked guys down until he was in range to counter them or attack. Louis only threw a punch if he were a foot and half away from you. He did not like to leap or lunge to land a punch. He always made sure his feet were planted and he was at a close enough distance to land his dynamite.

Louis was knocked out by Max Schmeling because of dropping his left hand after he launched a jab. With his hand low, he was wide open for a right cross or overhand right. Max slammed Louis' jaw with 72 right wallops before he finally KO'd him during their first encounter. Louis improved his defense afterward but when he was injured or surprised, that left hand would drop again. A perfect example of this is when he was propped up against the ropes with his arms dangling, leaving him wide open for Rocky Marciano's Suzy-Q. The punch knocked Louis out of the ring and ended his career.

Marciano and his trainer Charlie Goldman predicted this would happen. Their whole strategy was based around wearing Louis down with the relentless body attacks and when Louis dropped his guard, knock his head off with the right hand. Marciano dropped Louis with a hard left hook in the 8th round, and then finished him with the right.

Like I said, Louis definitely improved his defense after the Schmeling loss, but if hurt bad enough (as he was by Marciano) that left hand would come right down.

It was Jersey Joe Walcott who exposed both of Louis' major faults. With better footwork, Louis would have been able to cut down the speedy Walcott easier – walking down Walcott without landing anything almost made Louis look foolish. And Walcott was able to drop Louis numerous times in both fights because Louis held his left hand low at times. Can't help but wonder what would happen if Louis leaves himself open this way against Mike Tyson, huh?

Watch the fight clip below. Tami Mauriello takes full advantage of Louis' lazy left and hurts him with a big right hand. Then Louis responds by letting loose with short, tight dynamite artillery.

via Gfycat

Now for Mike Tyson. Tyson was known for fighting using the “peekaboo” style made famous by Cus D'Amato, who also taught the style to his other fighters such as Floyd Patterson, Jose Torres, and even Kevin Rooney during his brief boxing career. But it was TYSON who had the most success with it.

In my opinion, Floyd Patterson was more diverse with the style and did it better, but Tyson absolutely bulldozed guys with it. Some of Tyson's most effective combinations included a right hook to the ribs followed immediately with a right uppercut to the chin. He also loved to land a right hook to the body and then come upstairs with a knockout left hook to the head. Tyson also fought you in a circle. He'd initially stand right in front of you, but as you miss he'd slip your punch and then he's standing to the side of you attacking your ribs.

It may look as if Tyson is just rushing at you throwing punches, but there was a science to it. And he often threw his bone-crushers when he saw an opening or countering opportunity. He was much like Louis that way, only Tyson scared you into making mistakes while Louis baited you into them or patiently waited.

But the peekaboo has its drawbacks too. Tyson bobbed and weaved in a predictable pattern, always right then left. This made it predictable to know where his head would be. Angelo Dundee and Pinklon Thomas noticed this, which is how Pinklon was able to land his jab on Tyson at will. If Pinklon Thomas could notice and exploit this flaw, no doubt Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis would.

Tyson also fought in spurts. He'd attack his way in and invade your space, but if you clinch him or withstand his assault, he ALWAYS paused to reset himself. When he does this, it's the perfect time to attack him. Joe Frazier and Rocky Marciano swarmed all over you and never let up. Tyson swarmed his way inside but stopped punching while there. This is what made him so easy to be clinched throughout his career. He was not a good inside fighter - after a combination of three or four blows he would stop and wait for a clinch or whatever else his opponent has to offer. Rinse and repeat.

But unlike Louis, Tyson wasn't afraid to leap off the mat to smash his opponent's chin. Tyson took more chances and was generally more aggressive, while Louis saved his aggressive moments for the right time.

via Gfycat

Raw Power

It's hard to say who had the harder punch between these two ring warriors. As far as the stats go, Louis' knockout percentage is 75.36%. Tyson's is 75.86%, only a teeny tad higher than Louis.

Tyson dipped and got full leverage for that nasty uppercut of his. Louis, on the other hand, often hit guys with a punch that would make them “freeze” right in their tracks, and that's when Louis would pulverize them with combinations or what I like to call, “The Joe Louis Specials.” Guys would sometimes clinch Tyson after getting rocked, but that rarely happened with Louis. Watch his knockout of Max Schmeling, for example.

You could argue that Tyson hit a little harder than Louis, or you could say Louis hit a little harder than Tyson. Either way it's very close. I was never punched by either man and I don't want to know! But both guys had pure knockout power in both fists. Jim Braddock said that Louis' jab felt like someone smashing a light bulb in your face again and again.

Now, we know that Tyson hit extremely hard because his fights are in color, some even in High Definition. For example, you clearly see him knock the mouthpiece and bridgework out of Mitch "Blood" Green's mouth.

But with Louis' fights all being in black and white and somewhat grainy, it's difficult to judge his power. You see his victims go down, but it's much harder to see the details of the punch.

Here is a very informative video that shows how brutal Louis' right cross was.

Quickness of Hand

This is also really difficult to decipher. Tyson's hand speed was unreal, but you could say the same about Louis. In fact, watch how fast Louis' hands were when he destroyed Max Baer with that triple left hook. I hesitate to say who was faster between Louis and Tyson. It could easily go either way.

Better Finisher

Louis and Tyson both have reputations for being the best finishers of all time. Once Tyson had his man hurt, it was over within seconds. BUT there have been several guys hurt by Tyson that withstood his attacks and beat him. Tyson briefly hurt Evander Holyfield with a body punch in 1996, (5th round) but didn't jump on him to try to end it. Tyson also failed to knock out Buster Douglas when he floored him with that nasty uppercut.

Joe Louis ALWAYS got the job done. I can only think of two exceptions when he couldn't finish his prey. He hurt his right hand against Tommy Farr, and said in his autobiography that he couldn't throw the finishing haymaker when he need to. In his fight with Ezzard Charles, he said his hands just couldn't get to the target fast enough. This fight happened in 1950 when Louis was far past his best.

In comparison, Ruddock, Tillis, Green, Holyfield, McBride, Douglas and several others were able to survive at times when Tyson had them hurt.

Tyson generally finished guys quicker than Louis did, but Louis' finishes were gradual. He'd actually be setting you up for the knockout as early as round 1 even if he doesn't deliver it until round 5. Louis had to carry white opponents a few rounds..he only finished guys early if they hurt him (Galento, Baer, etc) or if they were African American. (John Henry Lewis, for example). In his book he said that he tried his best to get Walcott and Charles out of there early but it didn't work out that way.

Legacy

As far as accomplishments go, Louis is far greater. Tyson unified the heavyweight titles and is the youngest title holder in history, but lost his legacy fights and shattered his own potential early in his career. Joe Louis' record of 25 consecutive title defenses still stand, and his reign of dominance lasted almost 12 years.

Both guys are monsters head to head, but I think Louis would do better in this era against the modern giants than Tyson would. Louis routinely destroyed giants like Buddy Baer, Primo Carnera, etc. Tyson, on the other hand, often beat bigger men in his prime but struggled more to do so, often failing to knock them out.

Consider this also. Tyson would likely demolish the guys that Louis fought and might even look even more impressive than Louis did. If Mike kept his head on straight and fought as consistently as Louis did, do you think it's possible that he would have 25 title defenses in that era? That's something to think about.

The Fight

I'm a big fan of both guys but if they fought I think Tyson would destroy Louis early. Louis said he hated to be crowded, and although he was old against Marciano, I think Marciano would still have a style advantage, as would Tyson. Louis never fought anyone like Tyson before...the closest opponents he fought to Tyson were Marciano and Arturo Godoy. (Godoy made Louis real uncomfortable by always ducking at him). Louis would have to catch Tyson as he charged in, which would be incredibly difficult given Tyson's head movement and fast attack.

Louis in his prime was a small heavyweight, weighing between 198 and 205 pounds. The older, post-World War II Louis that fought Charles and Marciano was around 212 pounds, but would be too slow and old to last with Tyson. Louis had a good chin but was dropped by guys who were basically light heavyweights like Braddock, Schmeling, Walcott, etc. But again, he also successfully absorbed bombs from Tony Galento, Max Baer, and other notorious bangers. So you never quite know.

Tyson definitely had a solid chin. He was knocked out more than Louis, but each time he was stopped it was late in the fight. Tyson could definitely take a beating.

Given Tyson's head movement and speed of hand, I don't think Louis would know what hit him. Kid Dynamite was a beast from another generation..a new breed of heavyweight.

IF Louis survived Tyson's early blitz, he could then become the ring general and use his jab and counters to break him down and take him out late. I could see Louis defeating Mike with the same strategy used by Lennox Lewis.

But honestly I don't see Louis making it past two rounds. Louis is the greater fighter here, but that doesn't automatically mean he beats Tyson.

0 Comments

New Book About Marvis Frazier Is A 'Knockout!'

8/18/2013

4 Comments

While reading the new book, Meet Marvis Frazier, readers will do precisely that. Released two months ago, Meet Marvis Frazier is the first biography of Marvis Frazier, the son of heavyweight boxing legend, Smokin' Joe Frazier. The book was written by Marvis' friend, Jamie Potter, with additional contributions from Marvis.

The book is packed with startling revelations. Among them are the heartfelt details of Marvis' wife Daralyn's death, the ring injury he suffered that left him nearly paralyzed, his call to be an evangelist, candid details of his fights with heavyweight legends Mike Tyson and Larry Holmes, and many other topics.

What many people don't realize is that Marvis Frazier was one of the best heavyweights of the 1980s. He scored impressive wins over Bonecrusher Smith, Jose Ribalta, James Tillis, Joe Bugner, and Steve Zouski. Smith, Ribalta, and Tillis each went the distance against Mike Tyson. As for Joe Bugner, it was not his first time competing against a Frazier in the ring. (He went 12 grueling rounds against Joe Frazier in London in 1973, hitting the canvas once in round 10). Some boxing fans speculate that if Holmes and Tyson were not on the scene, Marvis would have been heavyweight champion.

During his fighting prime, Marvis was lean and tough. He lacked the fierce left hook of his father, but he could move. He didn't play around. He was a Frazier. Naturally, Joe swung into Marvis' corner as his trainer. Marvis was an undefeated prospect until his first round knockout loss to Heavyweight Champion Larry Holmes in 1983.

At the time, several sportswriters felt that Joe Frazier rushed his inexperienced son into the championship fight. But the elder Frazier was unfazed. "When the opportunity is there in boxing, you take it," Joe once said. But the criticisms didn't end there. Skeptics also blamed Joe for changing Marvis' style into more of a swarming brawler, very similar to the style Joe himself used. "You better fight like me if you wanna be a champion," Joe explained.

The Holmes loss sparked the beginning of a depression period for the young boxer. Marvis took the loss hard, particularly because he planned on bringing the heavyweight championship back to the Frazier family. Though he didn't succeed, his sister Jacqueline Frazier-Lyde captured the WIBA Championship in 2001.

Three years later, Marvis and his father were very confident in his abilities when the time came to fight a peaking Mike Tyson in July 1986. “When the fight started, the sound of the crowd got louder,” said Marvis. “I threw one jab. Then we moved into the corner. I didn't see the uppercut coming, but suddenly the sound of the crowd stopped; it was quiet, silent, even peaceful. The next thing I remember, I was laying on the canvas in the corner.”

When I interviewed Marvis, he was willing to laugh about it, which put me at ease. “Oh yeah,” he told me. “I was really confident against Tyson...until that uppercut.” Most boxers would have too much pride to talk about a 30-second knockout loss they once suffered, but Marvis smiled and credited his former ring rival. “Tyson was a great fighter...one of the best.” In fact, when Tyson was in jail for a rape conviction, Marvis wrote him a letter. In the letter was an inspirational poem. Tyson never forgot that, and the two have mutual respect for each other to this day.

The way a friendship blossomed between Marvis and his friend, Jamie, is a testament to the genuine nature of the Frazier family. Jamie watched the 2009 documentary called The Thrilla In Manilla, an honest film that tells the story of the three wars between Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier through Frazier's eyes. Impressed, Jamie called Joe Frazier's gym in Philadelphia, hoping to speak to Marvis, whose colorful interviews in the documentary were certainly a highlight. Expecting to hear a secretary answer the phone, Jamie was starstruck when Marvis answered the phone himself! The two chatted for five minutes, and a meeting was set up so that Jamie could have lunch with Marvis and Joe. Jamie and Marvis would talk regularly, becoming best friends. As Jamie listened to his new friend's stories about his life and career, he told him one day, “Marvis, you need to write a book. People need to hear this stuff.” In June 2013, the book arrived, available on both Marvis' website and on Amazon.com. Marvis is one of boxing's “forgotten warriors” but now his interesting story is here. At times personal, revealing, humorous and consistently fascinating, Meet Marvis Frazier tells the story of the icon's battles inside and outside of the ring.

My Interviews With Marvis Frazier

Jamie Potter and Marvis Frazier, the authors of "Meet Marvis Frazier."

Marvis Frazier is currently on a book tour and will be in a city near you! For more information, visit meetmarvisfrazier.com or visit Marvis' facebook page.

Read my article about Marvis in The TN Tribune!! (10/3/2013)

4 Comments

14 Year Anniversary of The Bite Fight

6/28/2011

0 Comments

Evander Holyfield floors Mike Tyson with a left hook in their November 1996 fight.

In November 1996, Evander Holyfield shocked the world by defeating Mike Tyson. The fight was the second loss of Tyson's career, and the rematch resulted in what is now known as "The Bite Fight" which took place 14 years ago today.

This was the first major boxing event that I witnessed live on PPV, and from that time on, I was hooked on boxing. First, allow me to backtrack and explain how these two gladiators found themselves in the ring on this particular night.

Backstory

Tyson and Holyfield were originally scheduled to clash in 1990 when Tyson was the Undisputed Heavyweight Champion, but Tyson was shockingly knocked out by Buster Douglas. Therefore, Holyfield had no choice but to fight Douglas instead. (It only took three rounds for Holyfield to win the championship from Douglas). Tyson was supposed to fight Holyfield for the title the following year, but was convicted of rape and sent to prison.

During Tyson's imprisonment, Holyfield defended the title against Bert Cooper, George Foreman, and Larry Holmes. He eventually lost the belts to Riddick Bowe, but recaptured the crown in a rematch. Then, in 1994, Holyfield was outpointed by Michael Moorer, losing the championship again. The former champion was diagnosed with a heart condition and retired.

1995 was the comeback year for both boxers. Holyfield's heart appeared to have been misdiagnosed, and he returned to the ring against the relentless Ray Mercer. (Holyfield became the first man to floor the fighter). But, his comeback was derailed in a rubber match with Riddick Bowe when Holyfield was abruptly stopped. He looked to be a washed up fighter again, just as he had the previous year with Michael Moorer.

Meanwhile, Tyson was released from prison the same year. Almost immediately after his release, he won two of the heavyweight championships. Tyson was easily wrecking his competition, and it appeared to be the 1980s all over again. Though the three-year layoff robbed Tyson of his timing and punching accuracy, he maintained his fast hands and explosive power.

Tyson was supposed to fight Lennox Lewis for the WBC championship, but paid him off and went for Evander Holyfield instead, who looked to be a finished fighter. However, "The Real Deal" had a surprise for everyone. In their 1996 confrontation, Holyfield didn't fear Iron Mike. He out-punched and out-muscled the champion. Tyson's strategy was to get rid of Evander with one big punch early on, but it didn't work. "I knew I could take his punches," Holyfield told ESPN several years ago. Holyfield spent the evening countering Tyson and walking him backwards, where he was ineffective. Tyson was out on his feet in the 11th round when the contest was stopped. We had a new WBA champion.

Some claimed Holyfield's victory was a fluke. Others agreed with Tyson's allegation of headbutts. Some said that Tyson underestimated Holyfield and didn't take the fight as seriously as he should have. A rematch was set for June 1997. Boxing is an unpredictable sport, but what Tyson did that night couldn't have been foreseen by anyone.

June 28, 1997

Holyfield blocks a crushing left hook from Tyson as Referee Mills Lane looks on.

In the first round, Evander picked up where he left off the previous November. Tyson only threw one punch at a time, allowing Holyfield to respond by countering and clinching. I remember rooting for Iron Mike, but it wasn't looking good. In the last minute of the round, Holyfield realized that Mike wasn't going to fight aggressively or put together any dangerous combinations, so he let his fists fly. They had a few thrilling exchanges, but Holyfield always got the better of Tyson. He kept the challenger on the backfoot, and would unload at least two or three counter punches to every one punch Tyson missed.

Winner of Round 1: Evander Holyfield
Reason: Higher Number of Landed Punches and Ring Generalship

I remember being somewhat bored watching the second round. Holyfield opened a nasty cut over Tyson's right eye with a headbutt. Now, in my honest opinion, I think the two headbutts in this round were accidental. Holyfield has a habit of dipping down for leverage before he unloads. Tyson is also a fighter who fights forward. As a result, both guys were coming forward with their heads at the same time. There were two occasions in this round where Tyson appealed to Referee Mills Lane, who did nothing.

Once again, Tyson wasn't being aggressive enough. There were two scenarios when he leapt in with a big left hook, but didn't follow up with anything. Throwing one punch at a time will never work against a natural counter-puncher like Evander Holyfield. Besides, Tyson has faster hands and a harder punch that Holyfield. Holyfield was also four years older. It should have been Evander who was intimidated; not Tyson.

I was not impressed by Evander's strategy, but I was also disappointed by Tyson's decision to allow himself to "slow dance" with Evander during the clinches. A younger Mike Tyson would have been banging Holyfield's body while in clinches. But the Mike Tyson on this night was submissive to the stronger man. Meanwhile, the challenger had a really bad cut. The blood was on the verge of sliding into his eye.

Winner of Round 2: Evander Holyfield
Reason: Ring Generalship (Despite constant clinching and mauling)

Things picked up tremendously during the third round. Tyson began to fight frantically. He stayed in Evander's face, unloading punches tremendously. He failed to hurt the champion, but his onslaught was so constant that Holyfield couldn't counter. This was the Mike Tyson I was waiting on. If he had fought at this pace during their original fight, I have no doubt that he would have eventually KO'd Evander.

The crowd began to chant "TYSON!! TYSON!! TYSON!!"

Holyfield threw the occasional punch in retaliation, but his only defense to Mike's swarming attack was to clinch. Late in the round, Tyson leapt in with a left hook, but missed and was clinched by the champion. That's when Tyson bit his right ear. (pictured below)

The startled champion grabbed his ear and starting jumping up and down, twirling in circles. I clearly saw the bite, but I thought maybe my eyes had deceived me. Surely Mike Tyson wouldn't bite him. But what I saw was real. Just when Holyfield stopped leaping in pain, he was pushed into the ropes by an angry Mike Tyson. A lengthy time-out ensued. Originally, Mills Lane wanted to immediately disqualify Tyson, but changed his mind after talking to the ring doctor. Instead, two points were taken from Tyson.

The round resumed with 33 seconds left. Tyson charged Holyfield and continued his assault, although neither man landed any effective punches. During a clinch, Tyson bit Holyfield's left ear. Again, Holyfield grimaced in severe pain. The two continued a tentative brawl until the bell rang. Mike Tyson was disqualified for the second ear bite. I remember the ring being crowded and Tyson going beserk trying to get at the champion. My dad told me that they stopped the fight. Bummer.

Tyson's career was never the same after this shameful incident. After being banned from boxing for a year, he fought several more times, but his reputation became a joke; he became more of an ear-chomping punchline rather than a serious contender. He got another title shot against Lennox Lewis in 2002, but was knocked out in 8 rounds. The disgraced contender finally hung up the gloves after losing to a journeyman fighter named Kevin McBride in 2005.

Meanwhile, Evander Holyfield continues to box today. He's currently the WBF Heavyweight Champion at the age of 48.

Final Thoughts

I feel cheated in a sense because Tyson could have beaten Holyfield. He just didn't have a set strategy. His only plan was to land one monster punch and get an early knockout. It's true that Holyfield didn't fear Tyson and out-muscled him, but he fought a Mike Tyson on the decline with limited skills. If they had fought ten years before, I have no doubt in my mind that the outcome would have been different, especially given Holyfield's bad habit of attempting to go toe-to-toe with big punchers. That decision cost him his first fight with Riddick Bowe, and it almost got him knocked out by Bert Cooper. Holyfield is famous for having a big heart in the ring, but his heart would have gotten him slaughtered by a prime Mike Tyson, who topped Evander in speed, skill, power, accuracy, aggression and timing.

As for Tyson, this bout hurts his legacy in countless ways. Most casual people don't remember that he was the youngest heavyweight champion in history, or that he was the first-ever Undisputed Heavyweight Champion. Some people have forgotten how much of a terror he was in the 1980s. But unfortunately, everybody remembers the bite fight.

Holyfield and Tyson reconciled in 2009 on The Oprah Winfrey Show.

0 Comments

Mike Tyson Demolished Michael Spinks 23 Years Ago--The beginning of the end

6/26/2011

0 Comments

Tomorrow, it will be 23 years since Mike Tyson destroyed Michael Spinks in 91 seconds to win the lineal championship. Many fans feel that Tyson was at his absolute peak in this brief encounter. That may be true, but this fight marks the beginning of the end. In my eyes, his demolition of Michael Spinks was a bittersweet victory.

In the mid to late 1980s, you didn't want Mike Tyson staring at you from across the ring. He not only knocked people out within seconds, but he did it in such a brutal fashion. There were other sluggers who scored devastating knockouts before Tyson--people like George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, etc--but none of them routinely brutalized people the way young Tyson did. He was the second coming of Jack Dempsey, who, like Tyson, was a relatively small man with a reputation for demolishing his foes within seconds, no matter how big or skilled they were.

By the time Tyson got around to Spinks, he had already unified all three of the heavyweight championships and was the most feared man on the planet. It might be amusing today, but some experts back then thought that Spinks may have been the one guy who stood a chance of beating Iron Mike. Tyson's former trainer Teddy Atlas reportedly went on record picking Spinks to pull off an upset.

Michael Spinks was scared to death. He was one of many Tyson opponents who was beaten long before he ever climbed in the ring. Moments before the fight, you could see on his face that he was a nervous wreck as he plodded around the ring like a zombie in a trance. Meanwhile, Tyson came to the ring looking like a warrior. No theme music, no robe, not even socks. (Another influence from his hero, Jack Dempsey)

A little over a minute into the fight, Spinks fell to a knee after suffering a crucial right hook to the ribs from a ferocious Tyson. He took the standing eight count, and apparently decided to get revenge. Just after the count, he threw a right hand at Tyson, who slipped the punch and countered with a thunderous right hand that landed right on the chin. Spinks fell on his back and was counted out by the referee. The crowd noise was deafening.

This was another example of what made Tyson so special and appealing to the public. With the exception of Larry Holmes, Michael Spinks was the best name on Tyson's resume. This was the fight that confirmed Mike Tyson as The Man on the heavyweight scene. Lennox Lewis didn't turn pro until the following year. Evander Holyfield was not yet a heavyweight, and Riddick Bowe was still a novice. The era was all Tyson's. But as I said before, this was a bittersweet victory.

Just after the fight, trainer Kevin Rooney was fired. It's a shame too, because Rooney and Tyson were an unstoppable force together. It's no coincidence that after Rooney's exit, Tyson's skills began to unravel. He stopped moving his head, he lost his accuracy, and gradually stopped throwing combinations and working the body. He fell in love with his power, and his training habits suffered. By 1989, all of Cus D'Amato's people were out, and Don King's people were in. For those who were in denial about Tyson's decline, they should have been awakened when Tyson was hurt and buckled by Frank Bruno the following year. The cat finally hopped out of the bag when Tyson got humiliated and knocked out by a journeyman heavyweight named James Buster Douglas in 1990.

For all these reasons, I have mixed feelings about this fight. It was a massacre, and I'll admit that it was one of Tyson's best performances. But it signals the beginning of the end because nothing went right in Tyson's life after this fight. I'd like to compare it to Michael Jackson's Thriller album. Yes, it was the peak of M.J.'s popularity, and many people say it was the singer at his best. But it changed his life forever, and he could only go downhill from there. This fight could be considered Mike Tyson's "Thriller."

Courtesy of Mike Tyson's official facebook page.

0 Comments

The 9 Year Anniversary of Lennox Lewis Versus Mike Tyson

6/7/2011

5 Comments

Today, it has been nine years since Lennox Lewis humiliated and brutalized Mike Tyson. I remember it well. It was June 8, 2002. The fight took place in my hometown of Memphis, TN. The entire city was buzzing about this fight, and celebrities were crawling all over town. I was in the 11th grade, and had some friends over to watch the fight live. My parents and sister watched the fight as well. It was the first (and only) fight party I've thrown.

Predictions:

Everyone around me was betting on a Tyson win, and I was no different. Here was my reasoning.

1) Then, as now, I had my concerns about the chin of Lennox Lewis. In April of the previous year, a right hand from Hasim Rahman shattered Lennox Lewis and took his Undisputed Championship. Rahman is no Mike Tyson, but he knocked Lewis goofy. Lennox also suffered a one-punch knockout loss to Oliver McCall in 1994. McCall and Rahman are not knockout artists--they're generally held in light regard as fighters. Lewis avenged his losses to them, but the fact remained--Lewis could be knocked out at any given moment.

2) Though he wasn't the sensational beast that he had been in the 1980s, Mike Tyson was still dangerous. He still put the behinds in arena seats. He maintained his explosive power and speed, but was no longer throwing combinations or using his trademark defense. After prison, he had lost his punching accuracy. He now plodded forward, looking to end things with one big punch. And, it's been proven twice that one punch is all you need to beat Lennox Lewis.

3) I felt even better when Evander Holyfield predicted a Tyson win. He fought both guys, so his opinion was of great value to me. He explained that Tyson will leap off the mat just to land a punch. Evander also stated that Tyson's assault would be too much for Lewis.

Styles Make Fights

As a boxing fanatic, I knew what each man needed to do to win. I'd studied their styles enough to know.

What Mike Tyson Must Do: Tyson would need to get inside of Lewis' long reach and pound away. Using his shorter arms, he'd have to get in close and blast away at the body and the head. Tyson is known for his ferocious uppercuts and hooks. Whether he hits you in the head or body, you're most likely going down. With Iron Mike, one punch can put you to sleep, but if he puts a string of punches together, forget about it. The 2002 version of Mike Tyson didn't throw combinations anymore, but as long as he kept throwing punches, he'd increase his chances of a knockout. He should bob and weave to slip Lewis' jab and counter viciously. Cutting the ring and cornering Lewis against the ropes would also work to Tyson's advantage.

What Lennox Lewis Must Do: Lennox Lewis refers to himself as a "Five Dimensional" fighter, classifying himself as a boxer-puncher-mover. He's telling the truth. The guy could box, punch hard, and move moderately well for a man his size. In facing Tyson, Lewis would be best off keeping Tyson at a distance with his long, telephone pole jab. Tyson is only dangerous when he gets inside. Using his jab and reach, Lewis could prevent Tyson from getting close and landing his bombs. Lewis is good enough of a fighter to slug it out toe-to-toe with Mike Tyson, but that puts him at a disadvantage because Tyson would be in range to do some serious damage. A 6'5 man trading with Mike Tyson on the inside is gonna find himself on the canvas sooner than later.

Getting the Popcorn and Sodas ready...

It was an electric night. I remember when Tyson came out to DMX's song, "What's my name!" I was completely hyped. Tyson looked more calm than usual, which was odd because he had been such an aggressive whirlwind earlier in the year to promote this fight. He talked of eating Lennox's kids, and, months earlier, even bit the man's leg at the wild press conference. So, to see a mellow Mike Tyson was a bit strange. At the time, I figured he was just focused. But looking back at the fight all these years later, you can see the insecurity all over his face as he approached the ring. His heart was not in this fight.

Moments later, Lennox Lewis came out looking completely stoic. His song of choice was the laid back "Crazy Baldheads" by the late Bob Marley. The song's reggae groove matched Lewis' relaxed demeanor. There was no emotion on his face--the Heavyweight Champion was focused and ready. He had his long dreads braided neatly into a bun. In addition, his beard and hairline had obviously been trimmed professionally. It looked as if Lewis had just been lined up by Steve Harvey's barber.

There was a team of security personnel in yellow shirts that divided the two heavyweights. Tyson and Lewis stared at each other from across the ring. Lewis showed no fear of Tyson. He looked relaxed, confident, and ready.

The heavyweight champion clearly had the support of the British fans in attendance, but it has to be noted that Tyson was the favorite of the crowd. Everybody came to see "The Baddest Man On The Planet" reclaim his throne.

The Fight

As predicted, Tyson steamrolled Lewis at the opening bell. He came in low, bobbing and weaving, looking to get inside and counter Lewis with his trademark hooks and uppercuts. He looked similar to the ferocious Mike Tyson of the 1980s; even exchanging jabs with the much taller Lewis. Shortly into the round, Tyson attempted to rush Lewis with a short right hand, but the champion countered with a thunderous uppercut and dazed him. Tyson staggered into the ropes where Lewis pounded on him until they clinched and separated. (pictured above) Tyson was hurt. Despite this, the challenger continued to press Lewis for the remainder of the round, even landing two minor left hooks--one of which staggered Lewis.

Things looked dangerous for the champion because he was brawling with Mike, but he fought back effectively. Lewis' strategy was apparently to uppercut Tyson whenever he got inside, or clinch and lean on him, smothering his punching space. (Referee Eddie Cotton later penalized him for holding.) Tyson won the round, no doubt because he forced the action.

During the break, Lewis' trainer, Emmanuel Steward, told the champion to settle down and not fight Tyson's fight. Great advice. Meanwhile, in Tyson's corner, the contender said to his trainer, "Ronnie, I'm hurt." It was the beginning of the end.

Round two began and Lewis adopted a new strategy--he hid behind his long jab and kept Tyson at a distance. After getting struck with another hard uppercut, Tyson relinquished his aggressive assault. From this point on, Lewis had his way. On the few occasions when Tyson got inside, he got smashed with uppercuts. A younger Tyson would have kept pressing Lewis, but the Mike Tyson of 2002 was content taking punishment for 8 rounds. The former champion even told his trainer, Ronnie Shields, that he wanted to quit after the 7th round, but Shields forced him back into the ring for round 8. Meanwhile, Emmanuel Steward was cursing Lewis out in his corner, begging the champion to put Tyson away. (Lewis explained years later that he hurt his right hand, which is why he didn't throw it much in the later rounds).

In the 8th round, Lewis dropped Tyson to a knee with a left uppercut. Shortly after the standing 8 count, Lewis threw his right hand, and Tyson was out. The fallen contender could have gotten up, but you could see in his eyes that he wanted no more. Those who didn't like Tyson thoroughly enjoyed this moment. Mike Tyson took a beating for seven rounds of this fight, and most fans agree that Lewis punished Tyson worse than Evander Holyfield and Buster Douglas did.

Final Thoughts:

This was a fight that Tyson could have won, even at this point in his career. He just submitted to Lewis after taking an uppercut in the first round. Iron Mike was still a fast and explosive puncher, but his heart just wasn't in the sport anymore. In fact, I believe that Tyson could have beaten Evander Holyfield in 1996-97. But, Holyfield had a strategy, and Mike didn't. It's as simple as that. Holyfield countered Mike's looping punches and walked him backward. Tyson, on the other hand, was relying on landing one monster punch. Lewis and Holyfield both caught a fading Mike Tyson who became discouraged and vulnerable if he didn't knock you out early.

This was the fight that Tyson needed to win. If he knocked out Lewis, all of his previous losses would have meant zilch. People would say that Iron Mike is the greatest heavyweight of all time when he keeps his head on straight. Not only would Mike have beaten the best heavyweight on the scene, but he would have become a three-time Heavyweight Champion in the process.

As for Lennox Lewis, he too, needed to win this fight for his legacy. He cleaned out the heavyweight division during the 1990s and early 2000s, even unifying the heavyweight championships. But if Tyson had beaten him, he'd never be viewed as an all time great. Lewis was certainly the best of his era, but the fact that he beat washed up versions of Holyfield and Tyson hurts his standing a little. To this day, a lot of American fans don't give Lewis his credit, despite his accomplishments and huge wins over talented competition.

People still debate on who would win between a prime Lewis and a prime Mike Tyson. Lennox Lewis had previously defeated other fighters with Tyson's style. (David Tua, Ray Mercer, Lionel Butler, Tommy Morrison, etc) But to be blunt about it, Tyson is better than each of them. When it comes to countering, defense, aggression, and speed, Tyson was way ahead of the curve. Lennox wouldn't know what hit him, and would find himself asleep for a count of 20.

I still go back and watch this fight from time to time. The first round is the most exciting. If Tyson had fought at this fast pace for the entire fight, I have no doubt that he would have landed the magic punch he needed to deck Lewis.

5 Comments

A.J. Dugger's List Of The Top Ten Greatest Heavyweight Champions Of All Time

6/3/2011

9 Comments

Larry Holmes. 69 Wins (44 KOs) 6 Losses

Larry Holmes is seriously underrated. It's a real shame, because he was a terrific talent during his era. Why is he overlooked? For starters, he reigned during the early 80s, sandwiching himself right between the eras of Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson, two of the most popular boxers ever. And secondly, he didn't have any memorable rivalries in the squared circle. He beat Gerry Cooney, Tim Witherspoon, Earnie Shavers, and many others. But chances are, if you're not a boxing fanatic like myself, you probably haven't heard of these people!!

Despite that, Larry was an outstanding fighter. Countless historians share the opinion that Larry had the best left jab in the history of the sport. Many of Larry's adversaries found themselves fighting the jab rather than Larry himself. Holmes could also brawl when he needed to. (Watch his slugfest with Ken Norton) He had a strong chin, evidenced by the fact that he survived a thunderous blow from Earnie Shavers; even rising from the canvas to knock him out. It took a prime Mike Tyson three knockdowns to keep Larry on the canvas. (Larry was destroyed by Tyson while making an ill-advised comeback in 1988.) After the loss to Tyson, Holmes regained steam by out-boxing younger fighters like Ray Mercer and Butterbean. The Easton Assassin retired for good in 2002.

2014 Update: Check out my recent interview with Larry Holmes and hear his thoughts on his fights with Tyson, Ali, Norton, Shavers and others.

Joe Louis. 66 Wins (52 KOs) 3 Losses.

Joe Louis is regarded by many historians as the best heavyweight of all time. Most boxing writers have Mr. Louis or Muhammad Ali at the top of their all time lists. Don't let his babyface in the picture fool you. I've seen Louis fight, and I can see why he's awarded so much praise. He was almost the perfect fighter--lightning quick hands, dynamite power in both hands, beautiful combinations, and great countering and boxing ability. Louis held the championship for almost 12 years with 25 title defenses. Jimmy Braddock (who lost the World Title to Louis) said that Louis' jab felt like "an electric light bulb being smashed in your face." The Brown Bomber conquered a diverse array of opponents, from giants like Buddy Baer and Primo Carnera, to slicksters like Billy Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott, and murderous sluggers like Max Baer and "Two-Ton" Tony Galento. All of these men were knocked out before the 15th round.

Joe Louis was terrific, but I have my reservations. He was often put on the canvas by punchers who are not in the league of the boxers I'll mention later in my countdown. Jersey Joe Walcott, Max Schmeling, Buddy Baer, Jimmy Braddock, and some of the others who decked Louis do not compare to George Foreman or Mike Tyson in terms of punching power. If Louis was hurt by 195 pound fighters like Walcott, I don't know how he would survive against the power of modern heavyweights, all of whom are well over 200 pounds. I'm not saying that Joe would definitely lose to guys like Foreman or Liston, but he'd have to knock them out first. It's essential. I know Joe had the power to put them to sleep, but I also see them hurting Joe pretty bad if they catch him. Could Joe Louis cope with the long jab and brute power of Lennox Lewis? Perhaps he could, but again, I'd have to see it happen.

Plus, Louis said himself that he hated to be crowded and smothered, which is certainly what Joe Frazier or Mike Tyson would do to him. I don't see Louis maintaining his composure against a swarming Jack Dempsey attack, either. Although Louis was over the hill when he fought Marciano, I feel that Rocky's smothering style would have troubled him anyway. In fact, I'd give any pressure fighter a good chance at knocking out Louis, mainly because he didn't cope well with pressure. With his flat-footed stance, he was relatively easy to maul over to the ropes and pound on.

Famously, the Brown Bomber also had trouble with "stick and move" fighters like Billy Conn, Bob Pastor, and Jersey Joe Walcott. However, he knocked them dead when he caught them. Because of his style, Muhammad Ali would also give Louis trouble, but Louis would likely stop him late.

Joe Louis was great, but I'm convinced that a few modern fighters would take advantage of his vulnerabilities.

2017 Update: Looking back, I ranked Louis waaaaay too low here. My main reasoning was that he was dropped regularly by 195 pound men like Jersey Joe Walcott, Jim Braddock, etc. This, coupled his relatively small size, made me uncomfortable predicting him to beat guys like Lennox Lewis, for example.

But watching Louis destroy giants like (Buddy) Baer, Primo Carnera, etc, shows me that Louis had the speed and the punch to destroy modern monsters as well. Lewis, the Klitschkos, Bowe, etc, are better boxers than the giants Louis KO'd, but Louis had the speed and attack to get them first, and he knew how to weave his way past a jab and get to the body and land his barrages. Seeing how Louis destroyed men of all sizes and styles, (and almost always by knockout) I should have ranked him #2 behind Muhammad Ali.

Rocky Marciano. 49 Wins (43 KOs) No Losses.

Right under Joe Louis, I've listed the man who retired him...The undefeated Rocky Marciano. Rocky is perhaps the most overrated and underrated boxer of all time. He was a small guy, (5'10, 187 pounds) but he had freakish power. He could knock you out cold with either hand. Rocky's record is 49-0 with 43 wins by knockout. He often threw wild, looping punches that sometimes missed, but he had such a tornado of an onslaught that it really didn't matter--you couldn't protect yourself from his attack. Rocky threw punches from all angles, and unloaded so many that countering him wasn't easy. Ask Archie Moore.

One thing about Rocky is that he always found a way to win. He certainly had some close calls, especially against Jersey Joe Walcott and Ezzard Charles. But he managed to gather himself and knock them both out. That's what a true heavyweight champion is supposed to do. The Rock applied constant pressure to his opponents. He went into each fight with superb conditioning, endless stamina, and a will to win. The Rock didn't take any fight lightly. He didn't duck anyone, either. In a time of racial divide, Rocky took on every top ranked black heavyweight. He didn't fear anyone in the ring, no matter how big, slick, or skilled they were. He had the courage and the punch to scramble anybody.

Most other heavyweight champions got lazy or unfocused at some point and lost a fight they shouldn't have lost. Not Rocky. Some critics say that Rocky fought weak competition. While it's true that he didn't fight the high class competition of Muhammad Ali or Lennox Lewis, he fought some decent contenders when you really examine them. Rex Layne, Henry Matthews, Roland LaStarza, Carmine Vingo-- all of these guys were good fighters. (They might even be in the top ten if they were fighting today). Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles were great light-heavyweight fighters, but folded when they stepped up to fight heavyweights. Jersey Joe Walcott had a late prime, (he was fighting the best fight of his career against Marciano until he got cracked) and Joe Louis was still somewhat of a threat despite being 37 years old when he fought Rocky. The Brown Bomber was still fundamentally sound. I have no problem saying that Rocky Marciano was the greatest of all time. I just feel that the men coming up on my list would have likely stopped him. However, you can never count Rocky Marciano out against anyone.

Smokin' Joe Frazier. 32 Wins, (27 KOs) 4 Losses, 1 Draw

Smokin' Joe Frazier is one of my personal favorite fighters. I named my dog after this guy for a reason!!! He's an exciting fighter to watch. He was a relentless brawler who made his opponents miss by bobbing and weaving while he countered with his own power shots. He stayed in close on his opponents, smothering them and not giving them any time or space to counter. Frazier had the perfect style to trouble the swift-moving Muhammad Ali. Frazier cut the ring on him and banged him in the body, which slowed his speed. With his bullying style and fierce left hook, Frazier would have cleaned up any era of boxing. His only losses were to Ali and the powerful George Foreman.

Note: I view Rocky Marciano and Joe Frazier as equals. They're really the same fighter, but it's hard to say who is better. Frazier had faster hands, but relied on his left hook for his knockouts. He was also a more accurate puncher than Marciano. Rocky was lighter than Frazier, but a harder puncher. Marciano could get the job done with either hand, but was prone to cut easy. Both men applied relentless pressure, worked the body, cut the ring, and got stronger as the fight progressed. They both had endless stamina and could take a punch. I guess it's a matter of opinion who was the greater fighter.

2013 Update: Whew boy. I feel basically the same, although I give Frazier a slight edge. Frazier fought at the pace of Henry Armstrong. For a heavyweight to fight at such a fast pace is amazing. If Frazier and Marciano would fight each other, I feel that Frazier would beat Rocky to the punch in most exchanges because his hands were quicker and more accurate. Both guys were tough but I think the smoke would be victorious against the hard rock from Brockton.

2014 Update: If you're a Frazier fan, check out my interview with his son, Marvis Frazier!!

Jack Dempsey. 61 Wins, (50 KOs) 6 Losses, 9 Draws

One word describes Jack Dempsey...ruthless. The man was Mike Tyson's hero. Here's a guy who used to literally fight for food while living as a hobo. His massacre over the giant 6'6 Jess Willard has to be seen to be believed. Jack's left hook was a fast and explosive weapon.(The first left hook he threw against Willard broke his jaw in seven places). He also possessed a chilling right hand, and was a durable fighter. Jack was as tough as they come. He paved the way for the other swarming brawlers in his wake, including Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, and of course, Mike Tyson.

The Manassa Mauler was the "Mike Tyson" of the 1920s. Like Tyson, Dempsey steamrolled his opponents at the opening bell and allegedly has more first round knockouts than anyone else. (Not all of his fights are on record). In fact, boxing's first million dollar gate was attributed to Dempsey's popularity. Everyone wanted to see this kid fight. Luis Firpo knocked Dempsey out of the ring, but Dempsey jumped back through the ropes to knock him out. The fight had 11 knockdowns in only two rounds before Jack ended it. Phenomenal.

Unfortunately, Dempsey went Hollywood soon after winning the heavyweight crown. By the time he returned to the ring years later, he wasn't the same fighter, and was easy pickings for Gene Tunney. After retiring, Dempsey trained other sluggers like Tony Galento and Max Baer, but none of his proteges could live up to Jack's success. In his prime, Dempsey was certainly one of the best ever.

2013 Update: Not much has changed here. I'm a fan of Dempsey but I wish the fight footage of him was better. The grainy fight films make it difficult to analyze him. For example, the late boxing historian Bert Sugar once stated that Dempsey had a quicker and "more ferocious" left hook than Joe Frazier. How can you prove that by watching such bad quality fight films? I wish better footage existed so I could analyze him better. It's hard to enjoy a fight when there are frames missing.

Lennox Lewis. 41 Wins (32 KOs) 2 Losses. 1 Draw

Lennox Lewis impresses me more than any of the other fighters. (No, it's not because we wear the same hairstyle.) LOL. Lewis could do it all. He could use his long jab and reach to punish you from the distance, or he could mix it up and brawl with you. He had crushing power in both hands, and his uppercut was on par with George Foreman. Not only could the 6'5 Lewis adapt to any situation, but he beat some quality opponents during his reign. Tommy Morrison, Riddick Bowe, David Tua, Evander Holyfield, Andrew Golota, Michael Grant, Shannon Briggs, Vitali Klitshko, Frank Bruno, Razor Ruddock, Mike Tyson, Franis Botha, Ray Mercer, Oliver McCall, Hasim Rahman, and countless others.

There's only one reason why I can't put Lewis as my number 1 Heavyweight....his chin. Lewis was knocked out twice by a single punch. He avenged those losses, yes, but his chin always kept me on the edge of my seat. With a shaky beard like that, it's difficult to rank him. For example, Rocky Marciano could knock Lewis dead with one shot if he caught him clean.

Other than his questionable ability to take a punch, Lewis was great. He only suffered two defeats. He even unified all three heavyweight titles when he defeated Evander Holyfield in 1999. He finished his career by knocking out Mike Tyson in 2002, and stopping current WBC title-holder, Vitali Klitshcko in 2003. Lennox Lewis is the last Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of The World.

2013 Update: I've somewhat changed my views on his chin. He took some big punches from sluggers like Ray Mercer, David Tua, Tommy Morrison, Vitali Klitschko, Shannon Briggs and many others. When McCall KO'd Lewis, his balance was poor and he didn't see the punch coming. You could argue that the stoppage was premature. As for the Rahman knockout, I'm sure that punch would have put many other former champions to sleep, too. As Lewis bounced off the ropes, the punch broke through his guard and destroyed him. It's one of the more devastating one-punch knockouts I've seen. In both of Lewis' knockout defeats his balance was bad. His chin is better than I originally stated, but not good enough to survive against....

Big George Foreman. 76 Wins, (68 KOs) 5 Losses

Big George Foreman is another all time great. His punching power was frightening. He won the heavyweight title by easily destroying Joe Frazier in two rounds. He then gave Ken Norton a similar beating. But, he lost his status as an invincible fighter when he was KO'd by Muhammad Ali in 1974. He retired after another shocking loss; this time to Jimmy Young in 1977. George became a born-again Christian after that fight and started preaching. Incredibly, he returned to the ring in 1987 and won the heavyweight title again by knocking out Michael Moorer in 1994, exactly 20 years after losing it to Ali. (He even wore the same trunks, mind you.)

Ironically, I think the old version of George Foreman is more dangerous than the prime one. Young George had stamina problems (something exploited by Ali) and threw wild, looping punches that could be countered. The older George didn't have these issues. He developed a heavy jab reminiscent of his idol, Sonny Liston. His punches were now short and compact. He even put together effective combinations. Remarkably, he was never knocked off his feet during his second career. The mature George surprised many people by giving Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs and Evander Holyfield a lot of trouble in their primes. I suggest watching Foreman's fight with Ron Lyle on youtube. Both men hit the canvas several times. Lots of action. Probably the most exciting fight since Jack Dempsey-Luis Firpo.

Charles "Sonny" Liston. 50 Wins, (39 KOs) 4 Losses

Next up is the man Muhammad Ali referred to as "The Big Ugly Bear." Charles "Sonny" Liston was one of the greatest fighters to step foot into the ring. Like Joe Louis before him and Mike Tyson after him, Liston often had fights won before the opening bell. His scowling stare intimidated many fighters, especially Floyd Patterson, whom Liston destroyed twice within one round and took his title. Liston had a long, powerful jab and a thunderous left hook. In short, Sonny could knock you out with any punch he chose to throw, including his jab. Chuck Wepner fought an emerging George Foreman and a declining Sonny Liston. The contender revealed that the 40 something year-old Sonny punched harder than the 22 year-old Foreman. Wow.

Several mysteries surround Sonny Liston. No one knows his age, no one knows how he died. Heck, people still debate over what hand he wrote with! Liston's career was derailed when he lost two controversial fights to Muhammad Ali. However, despite his age, he was making a successful comeback and had a long string of knockouts before his untimely death.

Muhammad Ali. 56 Wins, (37 KOs) 5 Losses

Everybody knows the man pictured above. In fact, everybody knows how "pretty" he is and how he's "the greatest of all time." Muhammad Ali was light-years ahead of everyone else. To this day, boxers are inspired by him, adopting his "stick and move" strategies and shuffles. But no one comes near him. Ali lacked true knockout power, but he had the fastest hands of all the heavyweights. He had the legs of a dancer, often floating or skipping out of harm's way. He had a solid chin as well. Honestly, who else could lay on the ropes and let George Foreman punch him repeatedly for several rounds?

NOTE: No fighter was perfect, and Muhammad Ali was no different. He made mistakes in the ring that would have gotten him killed by certain boxers. He fought with his hands down low, he leaned back to avoid punches, and he couldn't block a jab. Fighters like Joe Frazier and Ken Norton punished Ali for these mistakes. Ali also didn't know how to cut the ring or fight as the aggressor. (Watch his fights with Doug Jones and Jimmy Young)

Muhammad Ali was a great fighter, but people overlook his flaws. People never talk about the fact that he ducked George Foreman, never giving him the rematch he deserved. Wonder why? Because Big George wouldn't fall for the "rope-a-dope" trick twice. Ali would inevitably have to meet George in center ring and slug it out. In the 1970s, Ali didn't have the speed to allude Foreman, so he would have been clobbered and seriously hurt. Don't get me wrong. Ali did great things for boxing. He brought theatre to the sport. I enjoy him as much as everyone else. But is he the "greatest of all time?" I doubt it.

2013 Update: I still stand by this for the most part. However, I've changed my mind about the outcome of an Ali-Foreman rematch. Following his loss to Ali in Zaire, George became obsessed with maintaining his stamina and was hesitant to "pull the trigger" during his fights after 1974. I still feel that George wouldn't fall for the rope-a-dope again, but he'd be too afraid to let loose. Ali would get a comfortable decision over an insecure Foreman who would be too tense to let his fists fly.

Regarding Muhammad Ali, I have a high level of respect for what he did during the 1960s concerning Civil Rights and his religion. But in the ring, I'd still pick several guys to beat him, even at his best. Ali's speed on hand and foot was tremendous but he wasn't untouchable even during his prime. During the 1960s, George Chuvalo landed plenty of body shots and even stunned Ali with a right cross. (Watch the 13th round for the right hand I'm talking about). Karl Mildenberger and Henry Cooper also caught Ali with great shots but couldn't finish him. These guys were decent fighters at best and even they had success catching Ali. Even at his peak, Ali fought with his hands down low, leaned his head back from punches and couldn't parry or block a jab.

In the 1970s, Ali received gift decisions in the fights with Ken Norton, Jimmy Young, and the 1974 fight with Frazier. You could also argue that Earnie Shavers was robbed in his fight with Ali as well. I think people are caught up in the excitement and legend of Muhammad Ali more than anything else. He was an outstanding fighter. But if we're talking head to head, was he the best of all time? No. That award goes to....

Iron Mike Tyson. 50 Wins (44 KOs) 6 Losses KO Percentage 75.86 %

Head to head, Mike Tyson is the greatest of all time. If you fought Tyson during 1985-1988 with Kevin Rooney in his corner, you were in trouble. What made the young Tyson special was his technique. We know he was a powerful puncher, but the guy was intelligent. Bobbing and weaving, he was a hard target to hit cleanly. Once you miss, he'd counter you, and it's over in a heartbeat. Not only could he destroy you with either hand, but he also threw devastating combinations. My personal favorite was when he threw a right hand to the body, and then came up the middle with an uppercut from the same hand.

Trained by the late Cus D'Amato, Tyson adopted the crouching style of Floyd Patterson, but combined it with Sonny Liston's power and Jack Dempsey's aggression. Tyson also had quick hand speed and scary punching accuracy. This, juxtaposed to his bone-crushing power, made him one explosive puncher.

With Kevin Rooney in his corner, the self-confident 19 year-old Mike Tyson would smash most of the other Heavyweight legends during a head-on collision in the ring. Does he beat Ali? I think so. We saw what Joe Frazier did to Ali--he had him pissing blood. He also had him on the verge of quitting in The Thrilla In Manilla. Mike Tyson was a bigger, faster, and more talented version of Smokin Joe. Like Frazier, Tyson would cut the ring, corner Ali against the ropes, and bang him in the ribs. Tyson would slip the swift Ali jab, get inside, and land some crushing counters. Like I mentioned earlier, Muhammad fought with his hands down--not smart against Tyson. Ali said himself on the Arsenio Hall Show that Tyson would put him to sleep if he caught him.

On the rare occasions when an opponent remained on his feet, Mike stayed on them, relentlessly pressing and battering them to get the decision. Watch his fights with Tony Tucker and Mitch Green.

To be objective, I only see George Foreman or possibly Sonny Liston giving a peak Mike Tyson any real trouble. Things began to go south for Tyson in 1988 when he fired Kevin Rooney, hired Promoter Don King, and married Robin Givens. He lost focus, and things deteriorated from there.

Tyson's youth was his blessing as well as his curse. He got too much, too quick. Less than five years after robbing people, he was the Heavyweight Champion of The World. The leeches, the women, the money, the fame; all of it came to Tyson before he was mature enough to handle it all. Tyson's prime was only five years, but during that time period, he ruled the heavyweight division with an iron fist.

Everyone knows that Tyson began to lack stamina and self-confidence later in his career. He crumbled like a cookie when his opponents stood up to him and fought back. But I'm not talking about that version of Mike Tyson. You can't compare the sensational 20 year-old Mike Tyson to the insecure 30 year-old version.

To really evaluate Mike Tyson, watch him during 1985-1988. He became the youngest Heavyweight Champion of all time. He was also the first fighter to unify all three World Heavyweight Championships. During that time period, he was the best fighter ever. I don't think we'll ever see a specimen like that again.

Recap:

10)Larry Holmes
9)Joe Louis
8)Rocky Marciano
7)Joe Frazier
6)Jack Dempsey
5)Lennox Lewis
4)George Foreman
3)Sonny Liston
2)Muhammad Ali
1)Mike Tyson

Here's a list of the fighters who almost made the list, but fell short. I'll briefly explain why.

Jack Johnson-- Everyone on this list would knock him out.

Evander Holyfield--Too inconsistent as a fighter. Struggled with old Foreman and Holmes. Lost to Moorer, Bowe, Ruiz and others.

Floyd Patterson--Skilled fighter, but had a glass jaw. Too many losses.

David Tua--My favorite boxer. He never lived up to his potential, though. Never won a world championship.

2017 Updates: My views have flip-flopped a lot over the years. I have a new list (head to head) and it's almost nothing like the list I wrote here several years ago. Without further adieu..

1) Muhammad Ali - His speed and toughness would allow him to prevail over anyone. 1964-67 Ali was light years ahead of everyone else, and I don't see anyone beating him, much less stopping him.

2) Joe Louis - He was mean, and combined fierce accuracy, speed and explosive power. I don't care how big you are; you will fall when Joe Louis has you hurt. He was also an intelligent ring general, setting you up for a big finish as early as round 1.

3) Lennox Lewis - Basically a bigger and slower version of Joe Louis in some ways. When Lewis is focused, chances are you're not going to beat him.

4) Vitali Klitschko - Lewis fought better competition, which is why he gets the nod over Vitali in my book. But Vitali's size and awkwardness would overcome the rest of the guys I'm about to mention.

5) Larry Holmes - Great jab and movement. Tough guy.

6) George Foreman - Need I say more?

7) Mike Tyson - Tyson drops much lower than I had him initially. He never lived up to his full potential and lost his legacy fights. These days I'm more into facts than the hypothical "What if's." For different reasons, Tyson blew it. But his speed and power make him a huge threat to anyone.

8) Sonny Liston - One bad mutha.

9) Wladimir Klitschko -Wlad was a monster in his own right. But his chin lowers his ranking here. Any of these guys above could slay him if they land.

10) Joe Frazier/Rocky Marciano - These guys were well-conditioned and put their opponents under so much pressure. They're so similar that if they switched eras Frazier would have gone undefeated and Marciano would have lost to Ali and Foreman. They fight like brutal energizer bunnies and make their opponents increasingly uncomfortable.

Honorable mentions to Jack Dempsey and Evander Holyfield, who were also very capable fighters but not consistent enough to make the final cut.

What If? Floyd Patterson v. Ken Norton

Ken "The Jawbreaker" Norton

Chins

The Power Of The Punch

Heart

LEGACY

Backlash From The Black Community

FIGHT NIGHT

What If? David Tua Versus Primo Carnera

The Ambling Alp

The Tuaman

A Clash Of Styles

Legacy

Speed

The Fight

The Past or The Future? Discussing Mike Tyson and Deontay Wilder

What If? Joe Louis Versus Mike Tyson

Style Points

Raw Power

Quickness of Hand

Better Finisher

Legacy

The Fight

New Book About Marvis Frazier Is A 'Knockout!'

My Interviews With Marvis Frazier

Read my article about Marvis in The TN Tribune!! (10/3/2013)

14 Year Anniversary of The Bite Fight

Mike Tyson Demolished Michael Spinks 23 Years Ago--The beginning of the end

The 9 Year Anniversary of Lennox Lewis Versus Mike Tyson

A.J. Dugger's List Of The Top Ten Greatest Heavyweight Champions Of All Time

Recommended Reading

Author

Categories

Archives

Ken "The Jawbreaker" Norton

​Chins

​The Power Of The Punch

​Heart

​LEGACY

​Backlash From The Black Community

FIGHT NIGHT

The Ambling Alp

The Tuaman

A Clash Of Styles

Legacy

​Speed​

The Fight

Style Points

Raw Power

Quickness of Hand

Better Finisher

Legacy

The Fight

My Interviews With Marvis Frazier

Read my article about Marvis in The TN Tribune!! (10/3/2013)

Recommended Reading

Author

Categories

Archives

Chins

The Power Of The Punch

Heart

LEGACY

Backlash From The Black Community

Speed