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Jack Johnson v. "Two-Ton" Tony Galento

3/16/2020

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I know. I know… Jack Johnson was a real legend and trailblazer. The first African American heavyweight champion and arguably the best defensive fighter in history. And yes, I’m matching him against a guy that few people outside of boxing have ever heard of. A guy who literally trained by eating hot dogs, spaghetti and drinking beer. A guy who boxed against kangaroos for publicity. I'm not making any of this up. And for those of you who know who Galento was, you probably feel that Galento doesn't belong in the same sentence as Jack Johnson.

But Two-Ton Tony Galento was a better fighter than given credit for. His left hook was a bomb of a punch, comparable to Sonny Liston. Galento is most known for scoring a flash knockdown over Joe Louis using that very punch. 

Galento had an aggressive brawling style that was not used yet during Jack Johnson’s time, and Galento had fierce power, capable of dropping anyone if they’re not careful. Jack may have been a masterful defensive fighter, but against the style and power of a guy like Galento, does Jack survive and get the duke?

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"Two Tons" of Power

He was sloppy. He was crude. He lacked skill, speed, finesse and grace in the ring. But the boy could punch, and given Jack Johnson’s suspect chin, Tony has a chance in this fight. But before we get to that, let’s dissect Tony’s career and style. My primary focus will be on his most famous fight, where he twice hurt The Brown Bomber Joe Louis, even flooring him once.

Joe Louis was in his prime and destroying his opposition so quickly and easily that his opponents were nicknamed “Bums of the month.” Joe wound up being heavyweight champion for nearly 12 years and defended the championship a record 25 times. One of the guys he defended his crown against during this time was “Two-Ton” Tony Galento.

Tony was one of boxing’s first trash talkers. When asked once about Joe Louis, Tony replied by saying, “I’ve never heard of the bum.” 

During the weeks leading up to their fight, Tony would repeatedly call Louis and say, “I’m gonna moida ya bum,” and then slam down the receiver. Louis generally kept a stoic face and a cool head, but Galento wound up being one of the few fighters to piss him off. Louis even said to a reporter before the fight, “Why is that little fat man calling me a bum?” Not only did Galento hurt Joe in the ring, but he hurt the champ's feelings :(

Louis and Galento both sat down to discuss their infamous battle together in the video below. They went into detail on everything, including Joe mentioning how he planned to carry Tony for a long time to punish him for his trash talk, but got upset when Tony knocked him down, so he decided to end it fast. I must also point out that Joe always ended things quickly when an opponent hurt him or was a major threat to him. Galento is a great example of this, as was Max Baer, Jack Roper, Max Schmeling (rematch) and others.


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Galento fought like a lazy, stinky, defenseless, sloppy version of Rocky Marciano. He crouched at Louis during the first round, eating jabs. He wobbled him with a left hook in the first round, but went down himself during the same round. Bleeding like a pig, Galento managed to send Louis sprawling to the canvas in the third round. With murder in his eyes, the champion destroyed Galento with a series of vicious hooks and uppercuts in the fourth round, humiliating the little fat man who called him a bum.
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This was Louis’ 7th title defense of 25. The champion only got better, but it was Galento, Jersey Joe Walcott and Billy Conn who gave him his biggest scares.

​Back to Galento. “The little fat man” was very confident in his left hook because throwing the right hand threw him off balance. Of course, Galento's poor balance is partially the reason he wound up on the floor the first time against The Brown Bomber.

​There has been a lot written about Jack Johnson and I won’t be repeating what other writers have said about how legendary and great he was in the ring. But let’s examine how he would react if he were in the ring with Tony Galento.


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As I said before, the aggressive style of Galento was not yet in existence when Jack Johnson was fighting. Jack Dempsey dominated after Johnson’s retirement, and was the first fighter to aggressively dash forward while bobbing and weaving in a crouch while destroying guys left and right with a brutal left hook from hell. Rocky Marciano, Joe Frazier and Mike Tyson all borrowed the blueprint of this style from Dempsey. Tony Galento was also a Dempsey protege, but obviously lacked the finesse of the men I just mentioned. But what he didn’t lack was supreme confidence, bombastic punching power and will.  Those three attributes can take you far in boxing.

In Johnson’s day, guys were not yet crouching at each other. Everything was about circling and sizing each other up, waiting on the other man to attack. Jack always had his hands up ready to counter or parry. He generally fought patiently during the early rounds, and gradually became more and more assertive as his opponent got winded and discouraged. Like Ali, Louis, Holmes and Wladimir Klitschko after him, Johnson could be very patient and didn’t take any unnecessary risks. 


Even though he fought out of a crouch, the sloppy Galento was not difficult to hit. His bobbing and weaving was minimal. Galento seemed to be more concerned with planning his own attack than worrying about what the other guy would do. Louis basically hit him at will and could have knocked him out in the first round if he wanted to, but chose to carry him a few rounds and punish him. This is what led to Galento nearly knocking him out in that fight. Galento is not the kind of fighter you wanna waltz with. He was dangerous and unpredictable.
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This would be a catch 22 for Johnson. Johnson had hand speed similar to Louis, but lacked his crushing power. (I’m not saying Johnson couldn’t punch, but he obviously couldn’t bang like Louis) But like Louis, Johnson would probably be able to pick his spots and pound Galento whenever he felt like it. However, patiently stretching the length of the fight means that Galento would be given plenty of opportunities to surprise Johnson.

If Galento blasts Johnson to the ground with his fierce left hook, what happens next? This, to me, is the key to the entire fight. Let’s look at Johnson’s chin and heart. Before his prime, he was knocked out by Klondike and Choynski. He was only knocked out once more in his lifetime, and this when he lost the title to Jess Willard. Johnson was no longer fit and far from his best by that point. There are rumors that he threw the fight, but I don’t think so. Despite the footage being grainy, you can still clearly see Willard knock the wind out of Johnson’s chest at one point. When Willard hurt Johnson with the knockout punch, Johnson attempted to hold on to him to keep from going down, but failed and hit the deck anyway. He was a tired, old, overweight fighter. It was amazing that he hung in there for almost 26 rounds against a much bigger, younger opponent.

During his prime years, Johnson was decked by a middleweight fighter named Stanley Ketchel. Many people point to this knockdown and say Johnson had a bad chin considering he was hurt bad by a middleweight fighter. But the popular story is that the fight was a scripted affair, and, seeing his chance, Stanley went off script and decided to smash Johnson. A surprised Johnson went down, and returned the favor with his own brutal haymaker. The punch not only put Stanley to sleep, but it knocked his teeth out. (You see Johnson smearing Stanley's teeth off his glove immedieatly following the knockout).

This may have been the hardest punch Johnson landed in his life, similar to the punch Hasim Rahman destroyed Lennox Lewis with. The problem with these kinds of punches is that you have to wind up for them, leaving you wide open for a counter while also giving your opponent enough time to escape. Fortuneatly, Johnson rarely threw this kind of punch. But Galento? It was his specialty, especially his left hook.

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Who Wins?


​I see this as a repeat of Galento’s fight with Louis, only longer. Jack would have to adjust to Tony’s crouching aggression, but I think in a short time he’d frustrate him by countering and wrapping him up in clinches. Knowing Jack, he'd be smiling while he does it. Easy sparring session. Or so he thinks.

Johnson would be having an easy night and having his way until Galento inevitably lands his monster left hook. Jack would be overconfident and I could definitely see him getting a tad careless and getting blasted by a thunderous Galento left hook to the chin.

I see Johnson crashing to the ground in a daze, but quickly getting up with fury as he did against Stanley. Now it turns into a fight! Johnson would be able to see Galento’s wild haymakers coming a mile away, and counter him easily but now with more bite. Galento would be eating some real leather here, and Johnson would wrap him up in clinches and tire him out further. Galento had a great chin. His biggest knockout losses were to Joe Louis and Max Baer, two of the best all-time sluggers of all time.


Johnson wins here by TKO, but it wouldn’t be Johnson’s punch that would do it. Galento would be tired, faded and defenseless. This one ends by technical knockout late in the fight.

Jack Johnson wins by TKO in round 13 or so.

​Although I pick Jack to win, I must also note that I don't think anyone should be careless against Galento. Not even for a second. Louis wasn't careless, but Tony happened to hit him when he was in the midst of throwing his own punch. Pure luck, but still. Seeing Galento standing over a fallen Joe Louis shows that Galento might just luck up against anyone. 
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What If? David Tua Versus Primo Carnera

12/20/2019

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Imagine the year is 1933 and you're a top-ranked heavyweight contender  stepping into the ring with the heavyweight champion. As the announcer pumps up the crowd during the introductions, the heavyweight champion glares at you from across the ring. He is a huge man, standing at a tall 6'6 and ½ inches and a massive 250 pounds. His name is Primo Carnera, (88-14, 71 Knockouts) and he just recently killed a man named Ernie Schaaf in a previous fight. You're about to face one of the strongest men alive on the planet, even capable of murder in the ring.

Let's fast forward to the year 2000. You're a boxer and the only man standing between you and a potential crack at the heavyweight championship is a strong, stocky powerhouse of a heavyweight named David Tua. (52-5-2, 43 Knockouts)

Tua may be on the small side standing at 5'10 and wearing a "Kid N' Play" haircut, but it doesn't matter. You've seen what his devastating left hook can do. He basically hits you with the entire island of Samoa. Tua has his Polynesian dancers drumming and dancing as he makes his way to the ring. As he climbs through the ropes, he shoots you the meanest look you've ever seen in your life. He has knocked out his last ten opponents in a devastating fashion and looks to add you to his list. You visibly shudder at the thought.

David Tua is arguably the greatest heavyweight never to win the title. But he was blessed with pure dynamite in his fists and had one of the best chins of all time. His left hook was pure blunt force trauma.

​Primo Carnera was also a warrior gifted with almost supernatural physical strength. He is one of the biggest heavyweight champions to ever fight in the ring. What would happen if these two mammoths clashed in the center of the ring? Who controls the action? Who goes down? Who has the better legacy? Let's discuss.
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Standing at 6'6 and 250 pounds, the massive Primo Carnera would hold a significant size advantage over "The Throwin' Samoan."

The Ambling Alp


​Known as the Ambling Alp (What kind of name is that?!?!) Primo was the biggest heavyweight champion in history until the arrival of the 7-foot tall Nikolai Valuev. Carnera was incredibly strong, even working as a strongman and professional wrestler at one point.

Primo naturally had an intimating presence because of his size, but his scary reputation increased when he fatally knocked out Ernie Schaaf in February 1933. In the 13th round, a jab from the giant sent Schaaf sprawling to the canvas, and he never entirely woke up. He briefly awoke paralyzed in the hospital, but lapsed back into a coma and passed away 4 days later. Here is a clip of the knockout.  


Primo knocked out Jack Sharkey to win the heavyweight championship in 1933. In the 6th round, a vicious uppercut literally knocked Sharkey off his feet and took his title. What's ironic is that Sharkey had easily boxed his way to a decision over Primo in their previous encounter, but he was obviously intimated by Primo's “murderous” reputation in their title fight. The man was terrified.

Primo was not heavyweight champion for long. He was absolutely destroyed by Max Baer a year later, hitting the canvas 11 times. The referee mercifully stopped the massacre in the 11th round.

The following year, Primo was again humiliated...this time by a young up and coming Joe Louis. The Brown Bomber unloaded his dynamite and put Carnera on the floor three times. By the 6th round, it was over. This fight was the first major milestone in Louis' career. When he showed that he could knock out the massive Primo Carnera, people knew he had a future. Here is what Louis had to say about fighting Primo, brilliantly walking us through the fight.



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Louis said here that “Carnera was nothing.” It's interesting that Louis was able to literally pick up the giant and not vice versa. This was an easy fight for Louis, and he makes it sound as if Primo wasn't as talented as people thought, which I'll get to in a second.

There are many rumors that Primo was controlled by the mob. I don't know the details of this, but if true, Louis' statements ring even more true. Primo was huge, but couldn't fight. His size and mob connections are what led to his success. But that's all a matter of opinion.


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The Tuaman


That 19-second demolition you just witnessed is the entire David Tua-John Ruiz fight. Many of Tua's early fights went like this, and he was referred to by many as "The Samoan Mike Tyson." Like his hero Mike Tyson, David Tua often ended fights early in an explosive fashion.

After turning pro in 1992, David gained a reputation for being one of boxing's most feared sluggers. His trainers were Lou Duva, Ronnie Shields and Kevin Barry. Duva was friends with Rocky Marciano and said during one of Tua's  post-fight interviews that he gave his pupil a “Rocky Marciano style.” That may have been Duva's intent, but in my opinion David combined Tyson's aggressive approach with Joe Frazier's explosive left hook and stamina. Throw in a granite chin, and the result is David Tua.

David had a reputation for destroying guys within the first round, but he was also dangerous because he could go the distance no problem. There were many fights where David was behind on the scorecards but his bomb of a left hook bailed him out at the last second. Well, I guess you could compare him to Marciano in that regard. Marciano and Tua both had fights where their one-punch power saved the day at the last second.

Tua also had a chin of absolute granite. He was rarely hurt or staggered. Those huge tree trunk legs kept him sturdy.

Tua's first loss came to Ike Ibeabuchi in one of the best fights of all time. The battle was close. I had it 6-4-2 for Ike Ibeabuchi. Tua had issues adjusting to Ike's jab during the first four rounds, and Ike fought like hell to survive the last round, outpointing Tua. If not for his late start, Tua would have won.

Despite losing, this was Tua's best performance. He threw devastating combinations of hooks and uppercuts, he threw dozens of punches to the head and body almost consistently. Both guys wanted the win badly, and wound up having the highest number of punches thrown in a heavyweight fight.

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After his undefeated streak was broken by Ibeabuchi, Tua seemingly lost his spirit. His weight began to balloon the next year in a fight with Hasim Rahman. Tua began to get bigger and bigger with each fight, and now fought a bit more lazy, often looking to end things with his thunderous left hook. The combinations, the uppercuts, and the thudding body blows were suddenly gone. It was now all about the left hook. This lack of strategy and motivation gradually ruined David's career.

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David Tua narrowly missing a massive left hook on Lennox Lewis in 2000.

A Clash Of Styles


​Primo fought as an upright, outside boxer. He used his long 85-inch reach and jab to fight from the distance.

Tua, on the other hand, was the exact opposite. He charged right at you and launched his thudding hooks and uppercuts in close range.

If we go by what Louis said, Primo had a “pretty decent jab” and pushed with his right. What we know is that when sluggers slipped under his guard and landed on Primo's chin, he went down in a heap.

Max Baer and Joe Louis are the hardest punchers Primo fought, and they both shattered him easily once they landed their first significant punch. Louis wisely concentrated on a body attack during the early rounds to "soften" Primo up. Once Primo was visibly getting fatigued and began to drop his guard to protect his ribs, that's when Louis got aggressive and went for the kill. 

But Max Baer? He was a wild swinging madman. No finesse, no grace, no setup, just wild crazy random swings. If he could connect on Baer, I'm almost sure anyone could.

The difference between their victories against Primo is that Louis started setting Primo up as early as the first round, so it took less knockdowns to finish him later. Primo was broken down and ready to go by round 6. Baer hurt Primo earlier, but because he didn't "weaken" him the way Louis did, it took him a lot longer for Baer to finish the giant. (11 rounds).



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Joe Louis struck Carnera so hard that blood squirted from his mouth and he went crashing to the floor.
Fighting big men wasn't necessarily a problem for Tua, but his kryptonite was a good jab, regardless of his opponent's size. Tua never learned how to sufficiently block or slip them. Hasim Rahman was far from a spectacular heavyweight, but because he had a decent jab, Tua had trouble adjusting to him in two fights.

Tua's defense was so bad that he made Hasim Rahman almost look as good as Joe Louis. Similarly, Chris Bryd had a field day humiliating Tua for 12 rounds. Bryd's awkward, pawing jab and slick mobility kept Tua befuddled and allowed Bryd to stay out of danger. Tua never learned how to sufficiently cut the ring either. If he had, then he would have mowed down Rahman and Bryd and pulverized them. But he had no idea how to close the gap if his opponent kept their jab in his face.

Tua might attack aggressively like a Frazier or Marciano, but he had no idea how to trap and corner guys the way they did.

During their heavyweight championship fight in November 2000, Lennox Lewis basically treated Tua like a sparring partner in one of his easiest title defenses.

But Primo Carnera was even bigger than Lennox Lewis, and we saw what happened when Tua fought Lewis. Does this mean Carnera would automatically beat Tua? Not necessarily.
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Tua had knocked out guys as big as Lewis before, but none of them had Lewis' defense and skill. It was difficult getting around Lewis' reach, especially with him constantly shooting that jab.

Lewis also had his right hand prepared to surprise Tua with a straight right or uppercut. Once Tua felt the uppercut during the early rounds, he stopped attacking as much, knowing that this was the punch that awaited him if he got too close.  

Tua also had a rib injury that was aggravated early in the fight when Lewis struck him with a body shot. Whether it was the uppercut or the body punch to the rib (or both) Tua mentally submitted and followed Lewis around for the remainder of the fight in a trance, hoping to smash him with an explosive left hook that never connected. He had no plan B.


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During the last 2 seconds of the fight, David desperately threw a left hook so wide that he threw himself into the ring post.
Lewis and his trainer Emanuel Steward had Tua all figured out long before the fight. In addition to keeping Tua at bay with his telephone pole jab, Lewis held his right hand near his jaw, protecting it from Tua's only threatening punch – the left hook.

Despite being bigger than Lewis, Primo didn't jab nearly as much, nor was his right hand as vicious. I also don't think he'd employ any set strategy to keep Tua off of him. Because Primo lacked proper defense, it's more than possible that Tua would sneak through and blast his jaw the way Louis and Baer did.

Then again, Tua could be a lazy fighter at times. There were many fights he had against big guys with minimal talent similar to Carnera –  David Izon, Oleg Maskaev, and Danell Nicholson immediately spring to mind. These guys were far from great fighters but they were having a fun time dismantling Tua until he suddenly landed that big left hook that put them to sleep.

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Primo was so big that it was difficult for his opponents to get under his reach and attack him.

Legacy


Another reason why these two probably don't get the recognition they deserve is because their biggest victories in the ring are somewhat tainted. Primo's biggest win was over the much smaller and absolutely terrified Jack Sharkey.

As for David Tua, he knocked out four former heavyweight champions – Hasim Rahman, Michael Moorer, Oleg Maskaev, and John Ruiz. Ruiz was destroyed in 19 seconds and Moorer was blasted out in 30 seconds. But at the time Tua knocked out these men, none of them were the heavyweight champion.

Tua's biggest loss was to a peak Lennox Lewis, and his second biggest loss was to a young Chris Bryd.

Carnera's biggest losses were to Max Baer and Joe Louis. Primo's losses can be forgiven. Baer was one of the most dangerous punchers of all time. Joe Louis is arguably the greatest heavyweight champion of all time, so there isn't any shame in getting knocked out by those men.


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Early on, Chris Byrd looked TERRIFIED of David Tua. But he soon realized he had nothing to worry about.

​Lennox Lewis was too good for Tua, but Tua could have given himself a chance if he'd thrown more punches. In Lewis' next fight, Hasim Rahman destroyed him with one punch and took his championships. Tua is a much harder puncher than Rahman. The difference between the two is that Rahman actually threw punches in his title fight with Lewis, and Tua didn't.

Tua lost his fight against Bryd for similar reasons. He spent the whole fight looking to smash the elusive Bryd with his fierce left hook. Bryd has a great chin and could roll well with a punch if he saw it coming. Tua landed plenty of body punches throughout the fight, but by the time Bryd started to slow down because of it, it was round 11 and the fight was nearly over.

Lennox Lewis said it best. “It takes a whole arsenal to beat Lennox Lewis, not just a left hook and a haircut.” A cocky statement, but true.

If I had to rank Carnera and Tua, I'd rank Carnera ahead. For starters, Primo actually won the heavyweight title, something Tua never did. Even sadder for Tua is that there were four heavyweight titles during his era and he never picked up a single one, while many lesser fighters did.

Secondly, Primo's biggest losses were understandable. Tua, on the other hand, fell in love with his power and had no strategy against Lewis and Bryd aside from smashing them with a huge left hook to the chin.



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Sugar Ray Robinson hanging out with Primo Carnera and Joe Louis.


​Speed
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​As far as mobility goes, Primo moved a bit better than Jess Willard, but he was no gazelle. Still, Carnera wasn't necessarily slow, but you could see most of his punches coming. You could say maybe he was average at best.

Tua's hand speed wasn't on the Tyson or Ali level, but when he's in range that left hook could certainly catch you by surprise. Ask Darroll Wilson about that. He and Tua were scuffling up close, and Wilson all of a sudden went down. Tua had snuck a left hook to his chin. 1st round knockout.

People used to compare Tua's left hook to Joe Frazier's, but Joe's was clearly better. Joe could launch that punch from any angle, and you often couldn't see it coming.

Joe would “double” his hook, throwing one left hook to the body and then another one to the head. BANG! BANG! It was this combination that sent Muhammad Ali staggering into the ropes during round 11 of the fight of the century in 1971.

Sometimes Frazier threw the left hook after a jab in one motion, and sometimes he threw the left hook after a right hand set-up.

Tua was more predictable, often leaning a bit to his left just before launching the punch. Generally, you could see his hook coming if he were more than a foot and half away. But up close? You'd never see it coming.... and wake up in the locker room.  
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An older David Tua smashes an opponent with his left hook. Like George Foreman, Tua's power never faded.

The Fight

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Here's what you've been waiting for. One guy (Tua) had awesome power, a concrete chin and no problem going the distance. The other (Carnera) was one of the biggest men to ever lace up the gloves and even killed a man in the ring. How does the fight go?

Well, it depends on Tua. The 1994-97 version of David Tua would attempt to smash Carnera immediately. It took Louis and Baer a few knockdowns to keep the giant down for good, but they succeeded. They also connected their blows rather easily.

If Louis said he had issues getting under Primo's guard during the first few rounds, so would Tua, who lacked Louis' defense and was even shorter. Louis broke Primo down with his jab and counters to the body, waiting for the perfect time to strike. That moment finally arrived in round 6.

The '90s version of Tua still had issues adjusting to jabs, but because Primo didn't throw that many and Tua kept attacking, he'd land that big left hook  midway through the fight after struggling a few rounds to close the gap. A surprised and outgunned Carnera would be repeatedly put on the canvas.

If it's the overweight David Tua that lost to Lennox Lewis, Carnera may stay in the game a bit longer, but it'd be the same result – Carnera tries to survive, but the referee stops the fight after the big man takes one left hook too many.

David Tua Wins By Sensational Knockout in Round 5.

​Agree? Disagree? Duke it out in the comments!
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This would be the outcome of the fight. David Tua wins by 5th Round Knockout.
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The Past or The Future? Discussing Mike Tyson and Deontay Wilder

12/2/2019

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​“I am the hardest hitting puncher in boxing history, period.”

-Deontay Wilder. (WBC Heavyweight Champion, November 2019)

Easy there, fella. I really wish there was a George Chuvalo around right now to test Wilder's theory. I like Wilder, but all of this talk about his power is too premature.

Look, Wilder can punch. But he's not on the Foreman level. Did any of you see that punching bag in Zaire when Foreman pounded it? I've never seen any heavyweight punch like that. That's power on a whole 'nother level. Don't compare Wilder's power to Foreman. Don't even compare it to Earnie Shavers.

If I had to compare Wilder's power to anybody, it'd be someone like Razor Ruddick or Max Baer. I'm not even convinced that Wilder punches as hard as someone like Tommy Morrison or David Tua. Wilder is a giant heavyweight who has great accuracy. He has an easier time getting his punch to the target than the shorter men who have to swarm their way inside. Wilder can catch you coming in. This, and a lack of great competition, is how his impressive knockout percentage culminated. 

George Foreman recently stated that Joe Louis, Mike Tyson and Joe Frazier hit harder than Wilder. While all three of those men are among the all-time great sluggers, I disagree that Louis and Frazier hit harder than Wilder. I'll get to Tyson in a minute.
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Another thing that keeps coming up is this annoying question.

"Would Deontay beat Mike Tyson?"

Here's the thing. Tyson struggled with big men. Yes, he generally beat them. But when a big guy decided to clinch, run or fight  as a counter-puncher, Tyson just couldn't get the knockout.

James Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker and Mitch Green used these tactics to frustrate Mike. They were in survival mode and lost the fights, but they showed how to neutralize Mike's power if you're a big man. 

At 6'7, Deontay is far bigger than those guys and has an 84-inch reach. He could easily use those long arms to wrap Tyson up in clinches and frustrate him.

But at the same time, Deontay has never fought anyone like Iron Mike. What would happen when Mike inevitably slips inside of Wilder's reach and smashes him on the chin with a fierce left hook?

We'll never know, but Wilder has never dealt with that kind of speed and power before. Because of that, I think Tyson would brutalize him. My prediction would be a Tyson knockout in two rounds. I'm talking 1988 Tyson here.

This isn't bias; it's basically more of a pick against Wilder than a pick for Tyson. We just don't know enough about Wilder to assess him yet, which is why I don't understand why people are jumping on his bandwagon so soon.

All I know about Wilder is that he can punch like hell with his right hand, but hasn't fought anyone on the all-time great level or with an all-time great chin to confirm how legit he really is.

Speaking of Tyson, people are asking if Wilder punches harder than Tyson.

With the right hand, possibly. Overall, no. Tyson could crack with both hands. But his signature punches were his left hook and uppercut. Wilder is possibly a harder right hand puncher than Tyson, but Tyson has more devastating punches in his arsenal than Wilder, who relies on his right hand for his knockouts.

Wilder told TMZ Sports the other day to "let the past go." In a way, I think he is right. For now, let's hold off on comparing him to past heavyweight champions. Right now his future looks bright, but it's still a mystery. 

When Muhammad Ali was in his prime years (1964-67) people were not considering him an all-time great yet, often ranking Marciano, Louis, Johnson and Dempsey ahead of him. Likewise, Marciano was not viewed as one of the best during the years he fought. It wasn't until well after his retirement that his ranking skyrocketed. Take a look back at what the Ring Magazine rankings were during those times and read what sports writers were saying.

It can go the other way too, as people thought Riddick Bowe was on his way to being the next "big thing," but we saw how that turned out. The lesson is to sit back and watch these guys fight and see what happens. You never know who will be the real thing and who will be a disappointment.

People have been asking my opinion on these topics, so I decided to share.
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Andre Bishop Versus The Heavyweight Greats

7/31/2016

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On the boxing section of this website, I started a thread a few years ago asking if Fight Night Champion Protagonist Andre Bishop was a real boxer, would he be an all-time great? The discussion among fans is pretty divided, both stating good opinions on why he is or isn't. However, one way to determine if he was the real deal or not is to see how he does head to head with some of the greatest heavyweight champions. 
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Muhammad Ali

Muhammad Ali would embarrass Andre the way he did most of his opponents. Too fast, too pretty. Andre was a very capable boxer, but what does he bring to the table that could help him beat Muhammad Ali? For starters, I don't see how Andre could cope with Ali's speed. Granted, Andre would be too smart to wear himself out trying to blast Ali with lunging haymakers the way Sonny Liston did. I don't think Andre would leave himself open for too many counters. But he would lack offensive opportunities against Ali. No way does Andre knock Ali out, especially considering Ali had one of the best chins of all time and Andre was not the world's biggest slugger. Andre would not give up, but I see Ali winning a boring decision over Andre, who would patiently try to press and catch Ali but not land enough punches to make a dent or score points.

Winner: Muhammad Ali by unanimous decision

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Rocky Marciano

Andre would show a lot of heart against Rocky Marciano, but that may be the exact thing that gets him killed. I would personally pick Andre to beat a lot of sluggers. But not Marciano. Unlike Isaac Frost, Marciano would not tire. No matter what strategy Andre attempts, Rocky is going to keep coming. To make another Isaac Frost comparison, Isaac got weaker and weaker as the fight progressed; Marciano had a habit of getting stronger. Due to Andre being a counter-puncher, it is possible that he takes advantage of Rocky's crude swings and hurts him with counters. Like Ezzard Charles, Andre could alternate between brawling and countering, which frustrated Rocky to a degree because he didn't know what to expect at any time. That would be Andre's best strategy.

But Andre never faced anyone quite like Rocky. Both guys had heart, but Rocky's was bigger. I don't see Rocky giving in and staying on the floor in a fight against Raymond Bishop the way Andre did. I dunno. This would be a fast-paced war of attrition that Andre would not be prepared for. I see Andre doing OK against Rocky in the early rounds, but once Rocky finds his rhythm, Andre would be unable to keep Rocky off of him and would take a beating, leading to a late round stoppage. I imagine this fight would be similar to Rocky's fights with Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles.

Winner: Rocky Marciano by TKO during the late rounds


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Joe Louis

I don't see any way for Andre Bishop to beat Joe Louis. He may surprise him with a good right hand, but that wouldn't be enough. Joe was arguably the best finisher of all time, sometimes setting you up for the knockout as early as round 1 and you wouldn't know it. In each round he's working you over at his own subtle pace.

​Joe would sometimes end things early if his opponent hurt him (Tony Galento, Max Baer) or if he viewed him as a threat - (Max Schmeling, John Henry Lewis, Buddy Baer, etc). Given Andre's reputation for winning fights with a broken hand, knocking out Isaac Frost, I believe Louis would see him as a threat and not waste time once the bell rings.

Once The Brown Bomber hurts Andre with his first significant punch, it would be the beginning of the end. That's when Louis would put his finishing blows together and put Andre to sleep. Andre can't out-slug Louis nor can he out-box him. Andre may get a good lick in here or there, but this fight only lasts as long as Joe wants it to.

Winner: Joe Louis by Knockout

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Lennox Lewis

I think Andre is capable of beating Lennox Lewis, just as the old version of Holyfield nearly did in late '99. I'm not saying it would be an easy task, however. Andre would have to get past the long telephone pole jab of Lewis and be aware of that right hand or uppercut when he gets in range.

But I feel that Andre could be smart enough to pull off a victory here. Lewis had a habit of abandoning his jab when guys repeatedly hit him in the body. (See his battle with Ray Mercer and his rematch with Holyfield for references). If he employs a constant body attack early on, Andre would be able to manipulate Lennox into a close-range brawl, which works to Andre's advantage. It's possible that maybe he'd counter Lewis and sneak something past him to get a knockout, but most likely he'd win a close decision in a toe to toe war. If old Holyfield and Ray Mercer could nearly push Lewis to the brink by forcing him into a shoot-out, then I think Andre has a real chance here.

Winner: Andre Bishop by decision, but it could just as easily go the other way.

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Joe Frazier

This would be basically the same as my prediction on a bout between Andre and Rocky Marciano. Joe Frazier would be swarming all over Andre. I doubt Andre would be able to fend off an attack from Smokin' Joe.  Watch Joe Frazier at his peak during the years 1970-71. The way he cut the ring, combined with the fierce and relentless tenacity of his attack, makes him one of the best heavyweights ever. He fought at such a frantic pace that not many guys would survive.

Like Marciano, Frazier does not tire. So any hope of wearing Frazier down for a late stoppage is futile. Andre doesn't have the big punch of a George Foreman to stop Joe, and he's not built for a nose-to-nose 15 round slugfest with him either. Joe works him over with big hooks and body attacks, eventually stopping him with a thunderous left hook. Andre would be too battered and beaten to continue.

Winner : Joe Frazier by late TKO

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Larry Holmes

I don't see Andre being able to cope with Larry's jab, stamina and toughness, both mental and physical. With big wins over men such as Shavers, Cooney, Norton, Witherspoon, etc, Larry has enough experience under his belt to make Andre look like an amateur. I just don't see Andre posing a threat to him unless he exposes Larry's weakness of dropping his left hand after the jab and cracking him with an overhand right. But if Larry could survive a near-fatal knockdown from Shavers (and keep in mind that it took THREE knockdowns from a peak Tyson to keep Larry down) then Andre doesn't have a puncher's chance of stopping Larry. Larry would give Andre a boxing lesson and Andre would not be able to keep up.

Winner: Larry Holmes by unanimous decision

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Jack Johnson

Two counter-punchers. In this fight, Andre would be forced to fight as the aggressor. He can't sit back and try to counter Johnson. He'd have to lead, and it wouldn't go well for him. Jack (like Ali and Louis) has too much in his bag of tricks for Andre, who would be in far over his head in this fight.

But on the other foot, Andre has a puncher's chance against Johnson, who had a suspect chin. I think Johnson would slap Andre silly for the most part, but Andre has a puncher's chance and had a history of outsmarting some of this opponents. Would it work against Johnson? I'm not sure. Johnson might just be too tricky for Andre. But in a 12-15 round fight, Andre would find a way to set up the big punch he needs.

Winner: Andre Bishop by knockout


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Evander Holyfield

 Evander Holyfield is probably the best heavyweight to compare Andre to. Both guys had great strategies and ring intellect to make up for their lack of size, both were natural counter-punchers, and both achieved huge shock victories as underdogs. But Evander had more experience than Andre. Much more. And he beat much better competition than Andre, whose biggest victory was over Isaac Frost. The Evander Holyfield of '96-97 would find a way to beat Andre in a competitive fight while it lasts. The well-conditioned Andre Bishop who defeated Isaac Frost was a very patient fighter who has a legit chance against almost anyone, but the Evander Holyfield who demolished Mike Tyson and Michael Moorer in the late '90s was a more proven warrior with enough ring experience to get the win.

Winner: Evander Holyfield by TKO during the late rounds.


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The Klitschkos


To make it short, the Klitschkos would beat Andre. They were a little too patient for Andre to find anything to play off of. While Isaac Frost was similar in size to the Klitschkos, he fought a predictable and stupid fight, trying to blast Andre out of the ring during the early rounds. The Klitschkos would bide their time and counter. With a lack of punches to counter and play off, Andre wouldn't be able to bring anything to the dance. He would be on the outside of their long jabs all night. Andre could attempt to work them over with body shots, a'la Isaac Frost, but the Klitschkos wear their trunks up so high that he might get disqualified for "hitting low." There's just too much against Andre in a battle with these guys. He loses by decision or maybe a knockout if the Klitschkos decide to later in the fight.

I realize that Wlad and Vitali are two different fighters and fans of theirs may be offended that I grouped them together. After all, Vitali is a more awkward fighter, but has the better chin and is more comfortable in a slugfest if the opportunity arises. Wlad, on the other hand, is more of the classic boxer-puncher type. He arguably hits harder than his brother, but doesn't take a punch as well and avoids aggressive encounters as much as possible. But to save time here, the Klitschkos would beat Andre the same way, which is why I put them together in this list.

Winners: The Klitschkos by Unanimous Decision or late TKO


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George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Max Baer, Jack Dempsey and Mike Tyson


Sorry to group these guys together, as they all had different styles. But I'm confident that Andre knocks them all out. Foreman and Liston were big, crude men who hit like trucks. But they could be outsmarted (as Muhammad Ali proved) and they faded during the later rounds. Ultimately, Andre facing them would be repeats of his battle with Isaac Frost.

​Max Baer had better stamina than Liston and Foreman, but his crude haymakers would leave him open for counters from Andre.

Tyson and Dempsey were smaller than Baer, Liston and Foreman, but they were at their best during the early rounds. Andre was smart enough to avoid getting caught up during their early blitz and would take them apart when they slow down after round 4 or 5.

Winner: Andre Bishop by late knockout

​I realize that Andre is a fictional video game character and these fights naturally will never happen, but the guy was quite tough. I have him going 7-8 against the top heavyweight champions of all time, which isn't terrible by any means. And I pick him to put on a good show against most of the men that would beat him. Also, here is the thread on my boxing site where we discuss Andre's legacy. If you're a Fight Night Champion fan, take a look and share your thoughts!
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    Award-Winning Journalist A.J. Dugger III

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    A.J. Dugger is an Award-Winning Television and Print & Media Journalist.

    He appears as a crime analyst on the TV-One crime series, For My Man, and is the author of four books: Black Journals,  the horror anthology SoUtHeRn TeRrOr, the mystery crime thriller Who KILLED Joel Larson? and The Dealers: Then and Now, the sensational story of his mother and uncles' career as a funk band.

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